"Jim, get out there and fix the engine please"

NC_BE300 said:
LOL. I've heard of a video similar to this but it was a 727 crew....and something about the FE was flipping off the CA because of the attitude. It was also a CRM video.

Or was this the video perhaps? Anyone else seen/heard of the 727 one if that exists or is it this one?
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It was an experiment if it's the video I'm thinking of, the CA was actually a plant and it was to see how the poor FO and engineer would react to the situation. The guy who devised it was a presenter at the Bombardier Safety Standdown a year or two ago and he spoke about it.
 
mshunter said:
What bothered me most about that video was the captain asked for about a million things at once and never gave poor Jim a chance to do a single one of them.
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That's exactly the point -- trying to task saturate the FO to see how he will prioritize the tasks he's been given and how he handles the stress of dealing with multiple instructions at once.

A funny video, but pretty tame compared to similar 'harassment' that I've seen in the military fighter training business to teach/test exactly the same task prioritization skills.

It is actually a very effective method of measuring and teaching that skill, which is obviously very important in aviation. Not every situation allows a flight crew to 'wind their watches' and slowly and methodically solve the problem at hand; this is why there are critical action procedures and EP memory items. Pilots must be able to receive a multitude of inputs from several different stimuli at the same time or in very short time periods, identify what that information is, rack-and-stack it in terms of importance, and then execute the most important tasks first (while still being able to take in and prioritize new tasks/information).
 
Hacker15e said:
That's exactly the point -- trying to task saturate the FO to see how he will prioritize the tasks he's been given and how he handles the stress of dealing with multiple instructions at once.

A funny video, but pretty tame compared to similar 'harassment' that I've seen in the military fighter training business to teach/test exactly the same task prioritization skills.
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While I agree with you when it comes to single pilot operations, and I've done this to trainees during single pilot training, I think that this has absolutely no place in a crew environment. The point of this video, I believe, is to show what the PF SHOULDN'T be doing during an emergency, not to show how to load up the PNF (which in an actual emergency, you DON'T want to do).

It is actually a very effective method of measuring and teaching that skill, which is obviously very important in aviation. Not every situation allows a flight crew to 'wind their watches' and slowly and methodically solve the problem at hand; this is why there are critical action procedures and EP memory items. Pilots must be able to receive a multitude of inputs from several different stimuli at the same time or in very short time periods, identify what that information is, rack-and-stack it in terms of importance, and then execute the most important tasks first (while still being able to take in and prioritize new tasks/information).
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Again, I disagree with you on this issue when it comes to a crew environment. If you have to respond with a procedure like greased lightning in an airliner cockpit in order to survive, you're already dead, you just haven't realized it yet. About the only thing you need to be able to do quickly at my job is get an oxygen mask on, and beyond that, you wind the clock. Maybe you could also add in mashing the quick disconnect button if you get a trim runway, but then you slow things down and make sure you shut off the right systems. But shutting down a burning engine? Not that big of a deal, and if you wait long enough, the thing is going to burn off the airframe anyway and your problem solves itself.

Again, I think the point of this video is to show what you DO NOT want to do, and I don't think that this is a training technique (because if it was, it would be the check airman doing the training, not the captain in a sim).
 
Hacker15e said:
That's exactly the point -- trying to task saturate the FO to see how he will prioritize the tasks he's been given and how he handles the stress of dealing with multiple instructions at once.

A funny video, but pretty tame compared to similar 'harassment' that I've seen in the military fighter training business to teach/test exactly the same task prioritization skills.

It is actually a very effective method of measuring and teaching that skill, which is obviously very important in aviation. Not every situation allows a flight crew to 'wind their watches' and slowly and methodically solve the problem at hand; this is why there are critical action procedures and EP memory items. Pilots must be able to receive a multitude of inputs from several different stimuli at the same time or in very short time periods, identify what that information is, rack-and-stack it in terms of importance, and then execute the most important tasks first (while still being able to take in and prioritize new tasks/information).
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See what jtrain wrote. That was not proper CRM. This ain't the military. Get one job completed at a time, move on to the next. Tell ATC you are having a problem, declare, and get back to keeping the pointy end from getting there first. There is a difference between task saturation and purposely overloading someone, which is what the point of the video seems to be, which is what not to do.
 
mshunter said:
See what jtrain wrote. That was not proper CRM. This ain't the military. Get one job completed at a time, move on to the next. Tell ATC you are having a problem, declare, and get back to keeping the pointy end from getting there first. There is a difference between task saturation and purposely overloading someone, which is what the point of the video seems to be, which is what not to do.
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Not sure if either of you two actually understood what I posted.

Of course it is bad CRM; it is over-the-top terrible CRM on both the left and right seaters' part -- that's the whole point. It is a staged performance for the purposes of making that video, which is used for training.

I mentioned that it is also a technique to use in training for the purposes of an object lesson in those same task management and CRM skills.
 
Hacker15e said:
Not sure if either of you two actually understood what I posted.

Of course it is bad CRM; it is over-the-top terrible CRM on both the left and right seaters' part -- that's the whole point. It is a staged performance for the purposes of making that video, which is used for training.

I mentioned that it is also a technique to use in training for the purposes of an object lesson in those same task management and CRM skills.
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You're right. Now I get it.
 
Hacker15e said:
Not sure if either of you two actually understood what I posted.

Of course it is bad CRM; it is over-the-top terrible CRM on both the left and right seaters' part -- that's the whole point. It is a staged performance for the purposes of making that video, which is used for training.

I mentioned that it is also a technique to use in training for the purposes of an object lesson in those same task management and CRM skills.
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"How's about we just fly the airplane and then do everything not in a hurry, Your Captaincy?"
 
trafficinsight said:
It was an experiment if it's the video I'm thinking of, the CA was actually a plant and it was to see how the poor FO and engineer would react to the situation. The guy who devised it was a presenter at the Bombardier Safety Standdown a year or two ago and he spoke about it.
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Have a link or have idea how to see it? I never have, and people say its a great view. (If of course it can be found)
 
NC_BE300 said:
Have a link or have idea how to see it? I never have, and people say its a great view. (If of course it can be found)
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Code: 
http://vimeo.com/33088456

That's excerpts from it. The whole thing was pretty hilarious as was his talk on it. The basic premise being that the FO and engineer had no idea this guy wasn't for real, and thought they had been called in for a surprise simulator session to recheck something (so they were under pressure of sorts) and the "captain" was actually an FO channelling all the bad captains he'd had over the years.
 
trafficinsight said:
Code: 
http://vimeo.com/33088456

That's excerpts from it. The whole thing was pretty hilarious as was his talk on it. The basic premise being that the FO and engineer had no idea this guy wasn't for real, and thought they had been called in for a surprise simulator session to recheck something (so they were under pressure of sorts) and the "captain" was actually an FO channelling all the bad captains he'd had over the years.
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Ugh, that was hard to watch
 
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