JFK incursion - it’s like they’re not even trying anymore

[MikeD]

If true, I've taxied faster than that.

My RTO in the MD-90 was over 140 knots and violent.

175-ish was the fastest RTO I’ve had, but was severely tempered with a large drag chute and a 15,100’ runway including the 2300’ solid overrun that had a BAK12 cable and then a BAK15 barrier had they been needed. Luckily mostly uneventful, as the jet rolled to very slow before even having to test the brakes. No hot brakes.

 

[form810]

175-ish was the fastest RTO I’ve had, but was severely tempered with a large drag chute and a 15,100’ runway including the 2300’ solid overrun that had a BAK12 cable and then a BAK15 barrier had they been needed. Luckily mostly uneventful, as the jet rolled to very slow before even having to test the brakes. No hot brakes.

Drag chutes are much more a blast than a drag. Whenever the chute was gonna be repacked, I would always deploy it on landing. You know, just trying to help - by saving the techs time unpacking the chute.

But your point is taken. Anything that is going to drag you to a stop is going to drag a lot more at high speed than at low speed. It's almost like there's some rarefied embedded math formula behind this.

 

[derg]

175-ish was the fastest RTO I’ve had, but was severely tempered with a large drag chute and a 15,100’ runway including the 2300’ solid overrun that had a BAK12 cable and then a BAK15 barrier had they been needed. Luckily mostly uneventful, as the jet rolled to very slow before even having to test the brakes. No hot brakes.

Did you put it in the logbook? DID YOU PUT IT IN THE LOGBOOK?!

 

[form810]

At least the Swiss don't have to limp d* back to the gate due to the emotional trauma ... nah, give us an intersection departure and we good to go.

Severe, severe here. I'm actually surprised an aircraft that heavy could just go back and try again.

Serious question: How do brake energy limits scale with the size of jets? In your big-iron buggies, you obviously have bigger brakes. Question is: How much bigger? Do brakes scale kinda-sorta linearly with the mass of the aircraft? Or is every big-iron jet a huge Lear 60?

 

[Ian_J]

Serious question: How do brake energy limits scale with the size of jets? In your big-iron buggies, you obviously have bigger brakes. Question is: How much bigger? Do brakes scale kinda-sorta linearly with the mass of the aircraft? Or is every big-iron jet a huge Lear 60?

I love that you’re asking serious questions. I really do. Sincerely.

However, I’m going to very gently ask for one more little thing. Read the posts on this forum as if the posters were actual human beings and get to know them. I can see that your posting style is starting to change a little and the way you write is starting to become a little more personable. I love it.

Good ol’ Murdoughnut up there doesn’t fly jets. He’s still a hell of a guy though. Very math oriented and into statistics. You might like him.

 

[BobDDuck]

Serious question: How do brake energy limits scale with the size of jets? In your big-iron buggies, you obviously have bigger brakes. Question is: How much bigger? Do brakes scale kinda-sorta linearly with the mass of the aircraft? Or is every big-iron jet a huge Lear 60?

I'll answer for @Murdoughnut because I don't think Mbe is a thing on the planes he flies.

Brake stopping power increases proportionally to aircraft size, however heat disapation does not. Also, ground engine idle speeds play a roll as well because if you are constantly having yo drag a brake to keep your taxi speed back, the brakes never have a chance to cool off while moving to or from the gate.

Our NB Airbi have built in brake fans that get used pretty often, especially at airports with shorter runways. Our WB Airbi don't have them and it's pretty common to have 400c or hotter brakes when getting to the gate, especially if we are heavy.

 

[pwttogfk]

175-ish was the fastest RTO I’ve had, but was severely tempered with a large drag chute and a 15,100’ runway including the 2300’ solid overrun that had a BAK12 cable and then a BAK15 barrier had they been needed. Luckily mostly uneventful, as the jet rolled to very slow before even having to test the brakes. No hot brakes.

And this is one of many reasons why I don’t swap flying stories with my friend who’s retired from flying the F-16 and A-10. Although sometimes passengers show up early and the coffee pot doesn’t get filled. Scary stuff here in the corporate world.

 

[derg]

I'll answer for @Murdoughnut because I don't think Mbe is a thing on the planes he flies.

Brake stopping power increases proportionally to aircraft size, however heat disapation does not. Also, ground engine idle speeds play a roll as well because if you are constantly having yo drag a brake to keep your taxi speed back, the brakes never have a chance to cool off while moving to or from the gate.

Our NB Airbi have built in brake fans that get used pretty often, especially at airports with shorter runways. Our WB Airbi don't have them and it's pretty common to have 400c or hotter brakes when getting to the gate, especially if we are heavy.

Let me grab a beer and tell you about the beauty of "brake to vacate"…

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Let me grab a beer and tell you about the beauty of "brake to vacate"…

BTV is Burlington, VT for us regional pukes.

 

[///AMG]

175-ish was the fastest RTO I’ve had, but was severely tempered with a large drag chute and a 15,100’ runway including the 2300’ solid overrun that had a BAK12 cable and then a BAK15 barrier had they been needed. Luckily mostly uneventful, as the jet rolled to very slow before even having to test the brakes. No hot brakes.

175 is pretty fast. I think I've done 120 or so, once. And then also today in the sim for a 30+ day EP/currency sim. Buddy of mine running it gave us the old "low speed abort criteria not met" at 95 knots, I continued, which was followed by (at 140 knots) "high speed abort criteria now met" scenario for a real mind F***. Someone that rhymes with me got a little too spicy on the brakes (needlessly) and blew a tire (though I kept it on the runway for anyone wondering). I guess that's why we do these things in the sim sometimes too Finished off with a triple hyd circuit failure, and an engine fire on short final, and a no flap landing at a million knots. Complacent me was lucky to have such a sim.

 

[MikeD]

Our k

175 is pretty fast. I think I've done 120 or so, once. And then also today in the sim for a 30+ day EP/currency sim. Buddy of mine running it gave us the old "low speed abort criteria not met" at 95 knots, I continued, which was followed by (at 140 knots) "high speed abort criteria now met" scenario for a real mind F***. Someone that rhymes with me got a little too spicy on the brakes (needlessly) and blew a tire (though I kept it on the runway for anyone wondering). I guess that's why we do these things in the sim sometimes too Finished off with a triple hyd circuit failure, and an engine fire on short final, and a no flap landing at a million knots. Complacent me was lucky to have such a sim.

Our liftoff speed was around 195 or so at average loaded weights, a little bit higher with full fuel and heavyweight stores.

 

[sorrygottarunway]

At least the Swiss don't have to limp d* back to the gate due to the emotional trauma ... nah, give us an intersection departure and we good to go.

Severe, severe here. I'm actually surprised an aircraft that heavy could just go back and try again.

yeah, was my reaction as well. Let's just take an intersection so we don't have to waste a minute taxiing 200 yards to the end, and yeet off to CH, after what is a pretty high-stakes "could have been"!

 

[Pilot Fighter]

yeah, was my reaction as well. Let's just take an intersection so we don't have to waste a minute taxiing 200 yards to the end, and yeet off to CH, after what is a pretty high-stakes "could have been"!

Wondering if having relief crew members factors into decision to press-on.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

yeah, was my reaction as well. Let's just take an intersection so we don't have to waste a minute taxiing 200 yards to the end, and yeet off to CH, after what is a pretty high-stakes "could have been"!

That was a very low speed reject, wit aircraft crossing way down the runway. Doesn’t look like a life flashing before your eye moment. Still bad, on ATC.

 

[greg1016]

yeah, was my reaction as well. Let's just take an intersection so we don't have to waste a minute taxiing 200 yards to the end, and yeet off to CH, after what is a pretty high-stakes "could have been"!

As I stated earlier, if they had taxied full length they would have been about 4th or 5th in line for departure so a lot more than an extra minute.

And the ADS-B data I got from flightradar24 had a highest speed of 37kts though that was for only one sweep.