JetBlue Pilots vote against union

spbrian said:
I have personally been curious, please chime in...

How much is enough???? Be honest with yourself when answering this please...
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More than the crap they pay you poor guys to fly the death tube.

There are FO's at Express making more than you do. You guys are woefully underpaid, but unfortunately everybody that could have made a difference in your pay situation that thought that you were woefully underpaid left about 3 weeks after I did.
 
spbrian said:
I have personally been curious, please chime in...

How much is enough???? Be honest with yourself when answering this please...
Click to expand...

Easy: 1978 Pan Am payrates, adjusted for inflation.

SmoothLanderJ said:
I have to admitt, this is the 1st time that I've seen these past rates and um....WOW. Great points and debate here...........
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Those rates are nothing. That 1978 Pan Am rate I mentioned? Try doubling the Contract '01 DAL rate and you'll almost get there. (corrected for inflation, of course)
 
PCL_128 said:
Easy: 1978 Pan Am payrates, adjusted for inflation.



Those rates are nothing. That 1978 Pan Am rate I mentioned? Try doubling the Contract '01 DAL rate and you'll almost get there. (corrected for inflation, of course)
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Got ya, Ive heard that before. Hey you learn something new everyday....well at least I do. ;)
 
PCL_128 said:
Easy: 1978 Pan Am payrates, adjusted for inflation.



Those rates are nothing. That 1978 Pan Am rate I mentioned? Try doubling the Contract '01 DAL rate and you'll almost get there. (corrected for inflation, of course)
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I just wonder how any airline would stay in business if that happened. Consider the ticket prices. Theyre less now than they were prior to de-regulation... and thats not even correcting for inflation! I just dont see the pay that airline pilots made prior to de-regulation ever coming back, no matter what the unions or people who read this and other forums do.
 
SIUav8er said:
I just wonder how any airline would stay in business if that happened. Consider the ticket prices. Theyre less now than they were prior to de-regulation... and thats not even correcting for inflation! I just dont see the pay that airline pilots made prior to de-regulation ever coming back, no matter what the unions or people who read this and other forums do.
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We probably can't get back to that level without re-regulation, but I do think we can get back to DAL '01 rates. If we end up re-regulating, then we'll be able to move past that.
 
PCL_128 said:
Easy: 1978 Pan Am payrates, adjusted for inflation.



Those rates are nothing. That 1978 Pan Am rate I mentioned? Try doubling the Contract '01 DAL rate and you'll almost get there. (corrected for inflation, of course)
Click to expand...


I ask this question because nothing personal, we are transportation providers. Our entire system is messed up, I truly believe that we should not be making more than anybody who will either educate me to do my job or save my life if needed..

Teachers in public school's average: $37,000

College professors average: $77,000

Doctors make:
Anesthesiology: $306,964
Surgery, general: $255,438
Obstetrics/gynecology: $233,061
Psychiatry: $163,144
Internal medicine: $155,530
Pediatrics/adolescent medicine: $152,690
Family practice (without obstetrics): $150,267

I am not against fair compensation, but how much is enough? My uncle retired in 2002 from NWA, he has many many many many toys, he goes through cars like candy, he pours money into his airplane because he can. He's miserable, alone, all he has is story's about flying, no personal life, in shambles, etc. etc. Now really, what do I need to live on? No problems buying a reasonable house, paying for kids education and saving for any problems. I don't need enough for 4 Porsche's. My outlook is that if I was working at a Major right now today and I was asked to choose between a salary of 280,000+ and being gone for 4-5 day trips versus accepting 120-180,000 (which if you can't live on you need to look at the people around you who work their buts off and make 35000-40000 and make it work and ask what your doing wrong) and having 2-3 day trips with the ability to have a family life.

This isn't the golden age of aviation unfortunately, I hate it I wish I could have been around in those days when pilots were musicians, flying underpowered and under equipped machines, but we aren't. On the plus side with the technology the job is a safe one.

And before you flame me, I work harder, longer and probably in more crappy conditions than 9/10's of you for a bunch less money. I don't like it, my QOL sucks and I don't get paid enough for giving up my entire life to aviation but I know the economics of what I do and i'm not screaming for more money, i'm screaming for a life.

What is sad is that even in this crap job i'm only a few dollars less an hour than my step dad and uncle who work in mills with my step father having spent 30+ years there.

-Brian
 
And if there was someplace else to go I would be there!

jtrain609 said:
More than the crap they pay you poor guys to fly the death tube.

There are FO's at Express making more than you do. You guys are woefully underpaid, but unfortunately everybody that could have made a difference in your pay situation that thought that you were woefully underpaid left about 3 weeks after I did.
Click to expand...
 
PCL_128 said:
We probably can't get back to that level without re-regulation, but I do think we can get back to DAL '01 rates. If we end up re-regulating, then we'll be able to move past that.
Click to expand...

I think re-regulation would be great for airline employees, but for the traveling public... not so much. For that reason, its unlikely that it will ever happen.
 
SIUav8er said:
I think re-regulation would be great for airline employees, but for the traveling public... not so much. For that reason, its unlikely that it will ever happen.
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If UAL goes under (a distinct possibility), then you can bet re-regulation would be on the front-burner in a Democratic Congress. All it takes is one mega-airline to fail for regulation to make a return. Count on it.
 
With re-regulation, the traveling public would see an increase in customer service and amenities. Without airfare to compete on, the airlines would be competing on who would have the best service.
 
spbrian said:
I ask this question because nothing personal, we are transportation providers. Our entire system is messed up, I truly believe that we should not be making more than anybody who will either educate me to do my job or save my life if needed..

Teachers in public school's average: $37,000

College professors average: $77,000

Doctors make:
Anesthesiology: $306,964
Surgery, general: $255,438
Obstetrics/gynecology: $233,061
Psychiatry: $163,144
Internal medicine: $155,530
Pediatrics/adolescent medicine: $152,690
Family practice (without obstetrics): $150,267
Click to expand...

I hope all of those people get raises, but that's not my problem. I'll fight for my profession, and they can fight for theirs. I'm not going to let my compensation be limited by what some school teacher makes.

I am not against fair compensation, but how much is enough?
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Like I said, Pan Am rates circa 1978. Until I get that, I won't stop fighting for more.
 
spbrian said:
And if there was someplace else to go I would be there!
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I feel ya, holmes. A few people got out (RB in Burbank...ok well everybody in the flight department), but I have a handful of friends still there who are either 1900 or Metro drivers in Burbank and SLC. Most of them are all making plans to get out ASAP...which will probably be in like 5 years.
 
I hope all of those people get raises, but that's not my problem. I'll fight for my profession, and they can fight for theirs. I'm not going to let my compensation be limited by what some school teacher makes.
Click to expand...

When school bonds come out do you vote yes? Do you support teachers when they are asking for raises? That money comes out of the tax payers and they can't just fight and get it without it coming out of the people's pockets, so if you think it's wrong take a look in the mirror because due to poor management of our public school system, poor funding every single one of us has set it up to be this way.

Like I said, Pan Am rates circa 1978. Until I get that, I won't stop fighting for more.
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jtrain609 said:
I feel ya, holmes. A few people got out (RB in Burbank...ok well everybody in the flight department), but I have a handful of friends still there who are either 1900 or Metro drivers in Burbank and SLC. Most of them are all making plans to get out ASAP...which will probably be in like 5 years.
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Well, the way it's going many people don't have much choice in the matter when it's time for them to go.

Yeah, the only good thing is that I doubt my check will bounce while i'm still around this place, sadly it makes me sick to my stomach to do this stuff anymore. I am just tired.
 
Seggy said:
With re-regulation, the traveling public would see an increase in customer service and amenities. Without airfare to compete on, the airlines would be competing on who would have the best service.
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Absolutely, but its been proven time and time again, that people dont care. So long as they can get a one way to Vegas for $49 on SWA, they couldnt care less about service.

Saying that, I hope we do re-regulate the airline industry. De reg has been a huge failure IMO
 
spbrian said:
When school bonds come out do you vote yes?
Click to expand...

Yep.

Do you support teachers when they are asking for raises?
Click to expand...

Yep.

That money comes out of the tax payers and they can't just fight and get it without it coming out of the people's pockets, so if you think it's wrong take a look in the mirror because due to poor management of our public school system, poor funding every single one of us has set it up to be this way.
Click to expand...

Preaching to the choir, my friend.
 
spbrian said:
I am not against fair compensation, but how much is enough? My uncle retired in 2002 from NWA, he has many many many many toys, he goes through cars like candy, he pours money into his airplane because he can. He's miserable, alone, all he has is story's about flying, no personal life, in shambles, etc. etc.
Click to expand...

Your uncle has the choice whether or not to keep that money and if you had as much money as he did, you'd have the same choice too.

Really: if you had a lot of money and concluded that you had more than enough of it, then you could donate it all around to various people and places. Wouldn't that be a good feeling? You could take your riches and give it to people who need it. Or, you would have the option of keeping all of it, every last penny. But at least you would have the option.

spbrian said:
Now really, what do I need to live on? No problems buying a reasonable house, paying for kids education and saving for any problems. I don't need enough for 4 Porsche's. My outlook is that if I was working at a Major right now today and I was asked to choose between a salary of 280,000+ and being gone for 4-5 day trips versus accepting 120-180,000 (which if you can't live on you need to look at the people around you who work their buts off and make 35000-40000 and make it work and ask what your doing wrong) and having 2-3 day trips with the ability to have a family life.
Click to expand...

Reasonable house where?

Based in JFK/LGA/EWR/PHL/BOS/SFO/SEA/LAX? If so, these places do not have affordable housing within a short drive to the airport when compared to so many other places around the country.

You give an example of the choice between 4-5 day trips and $280K or 2-3 trips for $120K.

That is fine to compare against each other but in reality you are not going to be given a choice.

If your seniority gets you four day trips then that is what you will fly so you'd better hope that the pay is what it should be.
 
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