Jetblue A321 Engine Fire in SJU

Roger Roger said:
You guys don't get to observe it, because the pax don't open the doors on your jets, but based on what I've seen flying little planes I wouldn't count on the exit row passengers to get the doors open. Ours only get it right about 50% of the time under completely normal, non- emergency situations.
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Let see........many exit row pax I've observed are people I wouldn't trust to be capable of getting the exit open, much less assisting. Being more of a hinderance is more like it. Sure, kids and handicapped can't sit there. But I bet those two classes of people would be far more effective than the person paying zero attention to safety brief, and who has to be prompted a few times to give the verbal "yes" to the FA when asked if they can perform the duty, otherwise they are completely disengaged, and their yes answer to the FA is dismissive anyway. Or the person who you just know has zero idea about what the exit is, much less how it even remotely works, but answers "yes" anyway to the help question, because they want their exit row with more legroom.
 
amorris311 said:
The reason is because the 'A' FA is facing the wrong direction. When we say right side or left side they may get confused. MM and I had a long talk about this. His suggestion was teach them port and starboard. I kinda agree with him.
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Even with port/starboard; that FA is still facing the wrong way. Sometimes trying to make an improvement to something, actually solves nothing. In my opinion, left/right is fine, if crew are given the standing caveat that left/right ALWAYS means the aircraft's left right when facing forward. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Though I'm surprised that Delta doesn't call it port/starboard. :D
 
Derg said:
Truth. TRUTH!!!
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Heard a true story from a BA Captain of a woman standing in the doorway during an evac who actually took her fold up baby stroller thingie and pitched it out the door, hitting a guy who was standing on the ground below. lol They way he told the story it was hysterical. Said she threw it like she was standing in a pub playing darts.
 
A Life Aloft said:
Heard a true story from a BA Captain of a woman standing in the doorway during an evac who actually took her fold up baby stroller thingie and pitched it out the door, hitting a guy who was standing on the ground below. lol
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Not surprised.

Look at any modern footage of a rapid egress from an airplane and you'll see people running around with backpacks, shopping bags, etc.
 
Derg said:
Not surprised.

Look at any modern footage of a rapid egress from an airplane and you'll see people running around with backpacks, shopping bags, etc.
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The worst (besides the ones who clog the aisle and stall the evac because they are trying to grab all their crap) are the ones that don't even walk or run away from the aircraft, even if it's on fire. They stand around making cell phone calls or taking videos and pics instead. The ones who do manage to walk or run just zig zag all over the place back and forth and often just to the other side of the aircraft. lmao
 
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Derg said:
Oh, there's magic megaphone!

I have no idea how CFR doesn't run over more people. Totes amaze.
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Seriously they just do not listen, watch hand/arm signals, waving them in a certain direction, yelling at them, nothing works well. Can you imagine driving up to an emergency trying to focus on the aircraft, the fire, smoke and where to position your rig, what to do next, looking out for other crews and rigs etc., and having to maze yourself through a bunch of ambling pax running amok besides? Must be pleasant.
 
A Life Aloft said:
Heard a true story from a BA Captain of a woman standing in the doorway during an evac who actually took her fold up baby stroller thingie and pitched it out the door, hitting a guy who was standing on the ground below. lol They way he told the story it was hysterical. Said she threw it like she was standing in a pub playing darts.
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Derg said:
Not surprised.

Look at any modern footage of a rapid egress from an airplane and you'll see people running around with backpacks, shopping bags, etc.
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Not limited to pax only. You guys remember Fedex 647? Landing accident in 2003 of the MD-10 at MEM? Crewmembers wasting time in smoke/fire environment chucking bags and Christmas gifts out the L-1 door rather than egressing.

"....Evaluation of a witness-provided videotape of the emergency evacuation showed that about 152 seconds passed between the time that the first and last occupant exited the burning airplane. During this time, the crewmembers did not evacuate the airplane in an uninterrupted flow. Although the captain and cockpit jumpseat nonrevenue pilot evacuated relatively quickly, the videotape showed delays between subsequent evacuating crewmembers. During these delays, the escape ropes were available but unused, and several pieces of baggage were thrown from the airplane. The elapsed time between successive crewmembers exiting the airplane was as much as 63 seconds. During postaccident interviews, several crewmembers reported that they were offloading bags while they waited in line to exit the airplane through the cockpit exits. During subsequent documentation of the cockpit, jumpseat, and cargo compartments, investigators found no crewmember baggage. It is evident that the delays were the result of the offloading of crewmembers personal bags and not because they were waiting for other crewmembers to exit or had difficulty using the cockpit egress system. The Safety Board concludes that most of the FedEx pilots on board the accident airplane showed poor judgment and exposed themselves to unnecessary risk when they delayed their evacuation from a burning airplane to salvage personal items.

After the accident, FedEx issued a bulletin to crewmembers that stated, .During an emergency evacuation each crewmember and jumpseater will evacuate in the most expeditious manner possible. No one will take an unnecessary risk by taking time to salvage personal articles.. This bulletin articulated a policy similar to the policy that passenger-carrying air carriers have expressed to passengers for years."

 
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Oh hell, I forgot all about that!!! Good call, Mike! Hey toss my bag down will ya? Get my goodie bag too while you're at it .... yeah, yeah the gold foil one with the bracelet for my girlfriend. Don't forget my laptop either, damn it!
 
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A Life Aloft said:
Oh hell, I forgot all about that!!! Good call, Mike! Hey toss my bag down will ya? Get my goodie bag too while you're at it. Don't forget my laptop either, damn it!
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MEM ATC also dropped the ball a bit on this one with the ARFF response, which could've been a real problem had this been a pax plane. MEM ground cleared the MEM city ARFF vehicles to the scene, but held the contract ARFF vehicles that were responding from the Fedex ramp short of RW 27 to allow for landing traffic to land and two other planes to cross the runway, delaying the response of these forces for up to 2 minutes.
 
MikeD said:
MEM ATC also dropped the ball a bit on this one with the ARFF response, which could've been a real problem had this been a pax plane. MEM ground cleared the MEM city ARFF vehicles to the scene, but held the contract ARFF vehicles that were responding from the Fedex ramp short of RW 27 to allow for landing traffic to land and two other planes to cross the runway, delaying the response of these forces for up to 2 minutes.
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The whole incident was a debacle especially with the F/O who was flying and the Captain. A lot of background crap came to light though.

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/2005/FedEx647/index.html

and

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/2005/FedEx647/presentations/operations.pdf

Plenty of failures and issues all the way around.
 
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