JET UNIVERSITY and banks!!

[JOEFRIDAY2]

Well, Gonzo...

I just read through the 105 posts in that Jet U thread that you mention above and every one of those posts with the exception on one lone post was an opinion with absolutely no facts to back up why someone should not go to Jet U. That thread was put in in the summer of 2007 and Jet U had been in business since May 2006. I do know that Jet U had already scammed a number of students by then, but none of you had that specific information.

So while some of the forum members had opinions, unfortunately they had nothing to back those opinions up. This was not unlike any other place where students could look for information about Jet U at that time. So the Jet U scam continued.

The only thread that had specific information was the one post that indicated that two Jet U students had failed out of indoc training at Pinnacle. That post was true, but again there was no proof at that time. I know those students and I know what happened. One was a Riddle grad that came to Jet U for the CRJ program and already had all of his ratings.

On the other hand, you might not want to hear this, but Jet U had the highest percentage of students getting through Pinnacle indoc training when compared to every other bridge program out there. The Jet U number was just under 80% success rate. Every other school was lower. So something was working in that area.

As far as my original warning post about Jet U being deleted, I still have the e-mail from Doug in my e-mail box and I stand by my post.

 

[ChasenSFO]

Who in their right mind would take out a $100,000 loan and pay it all UP FRONT to some no name flight school that is not even a college program???

Kids with rich parents who watch Catch Me if You Can and say "Hey, I want to wear aviators and have epaulets too!".

 

[surreal1221]

Well, Gonzo...

I just read through the 105 posts in that Jet U thread that you mention above and every one of those posts with the exception on one lone post was an opinion with absolutely no facts to back up why someone should not go to Jet U. That thread was put in in the summer of 2007 and Jet U had been in business since May 2006. I do know that Jet U had already scammed a number of students by then, but none of you had that specific information.

So while some of the forum members had opinions, unfortunately they had nothing to back those opinions up. This was not unlike any other place where students could look for information about Jet U at that time. So the Jet U scam continued.

The only thread that had specific information was the one post that indicated that two Jet U students had failed out of indoc training at Pinnacle. That post was true, but again there was no proof at that time. I know those students and I know what happened. One was a Riddle grad that came to Jet U for the CRJ program and already had all of his ratings.

On the other hand, you might not want to hear this, but Jet U had the highest percentage of students getting through Pinnacle indoc training when compared to every other bridge program out there. The Jet U number was just under 80% success rate. Every other school was lower. So something was working in that area.

As far as my original warning post about Jet U being deleted, I still have the e-mail from Doug in my e-mail box and I stand by my post.

Turns out those opinions should have been appreciated at the time.

 

[wrxpilot]

On the other hand, you might not want to hear this, but Jet U had the highest percentage of students getting through Pinnacle indoc training when compared to every other bridge program out there. The Jet U number was just under 80% success rate. Every other school was lower. So something was working in that area.

Just out of curiosity, how did you come about this statistic?

Back in 2007, I was teaching at a flight school just up the road from Jet U. We'd have one or two students a week come into our school looking for opinions about Jet U, and it was clear that almost all of them already had their minds up and were looking for justification for their decisions. I have no sympathy for them, as it was obvious they were walking into a financial disaster.

 

[mxflyer]

Turns out those opinions should have been appreciated at the time.

Exactly, since when do consumer opinions not matter? Most people ask around before seeing a movie, why not do the same for a flight school?

In Gonzo's link there were many offers to PM somebody for more details, I wonder how many did.

 

[JOEFRIDAY2]

Just out of curiosity, how did you come about this statistic?

WRX, one of the Jet U students had checked with Pinnacle, prior to enrolling, and was provided with that information. I was given a copy of that documentation and still have it.

What I want to get across here is that students did check Jet University out. They checked with Pinnacle and it was given a positive recommendation. There was also a link to Jet U from the Pinnacle website.

The students checked with other students that had attended Jet U and had been hired by Pinnacle. The school checked out with those that had actually attended Jet U. (Unfortunately, at that time, there was not one post on any board from any Jet U student that had actually attended Jet U and did not receive what they signed up for)

Students checked with the Better Business Bureau and the school checked out.

I've worked with these students and they checked out every legitimate available source available to them at the time before enrolling at Jet U.

Yes there were a lot of people (on this board and other boards) that had an opinion that students should not get involved with Jet U. However not one of those people had actually attended Jet U and had first hand knowledge.

As another example, look at ATP. There are lots of people that have an opinion to not go to ATP. Yet none of those people have actually gone there. On the other hand there are people that have gone to ATP and recommend it to others. If prospective students "listened" to those that only had opinions about ATP, rather than actual experience with ATP, then no one would sign up for ATP.

I'm sure everyone here would agree that actual experience counts as we go through this thing called life. (Especially in Aviation) Unfortunately no one on this board had any actual experience with JEt U and there lies the problem.

 

[JOEFRIDAY2]

Exactly, since when do consumer opinions not matter? Most people ask around before seeing a movie, why not do the same for a flight school?

That's good if the person giving the advice has actually seen the movie.

If the person giving the advice hasn't seen the movie then the advice isn't worth much is it?

 

[Gonzo]

WRX, one of the Jet U students had checked with Pinnacle, prior to enrolling, and was provided with that information. I was given a copy of that documentation and still have it.

What I want to get across here is that students did check Jet University out. They checked with Pinnacle and it was given a positive recommendation. There was also a link to Jet U from the Pinnacle website.

The students checked with other students that had attended Jet U and had been hired by Pinnacle. The school checked out with those that had actually attended Jet U. (Unfortunately, at that time, there was not one post on any board from any Jet U student that had actually attended Jet U and did not receive what they signed up for)

Students checked with the Better Business Bureau and the school checked out.

I've worked with these students and they checked out every legitimate available source available to them at the time before enrolling at Jet U.

Yes there were a lot of people (on this board and other boards) that had an opinion that students should not get involved with Jet U. However not one of those people had actually attended Jet U and had first hand knowledge.

As another example, look at ATP. There are lots of people that have an opinion to not go to ATP. Yet none of those people have actually gone there. On the other hand there are people that have gone to ATP and recommend it to others. If prospective students "listened" to those that only had opinions about ATP, rather than actual experience with ATP, then no one would sign up for ATP.

I'm sure everyone here would agree that actual experience counts as we go through this thing called life. (Especially in Aviation) Unfortunately no one on this board had any actual experience with JEt U and there lies the problem.

I am calling BS the school never checked out.

Here is little reading from: http://forums.jetcareers.com/search.php?searchid=1990469

Cherokee_Cruiser did go to Jet U and had nothing good to say about it. He offered to have people PM him to get the whole story.

Jet U checked out because people wanted it to check out.

 

[SteveC]

Here is little reading from: http://forums.jetcareers.com/search.php?searchid=1990469

Can't reference that search string (see attachment). Maybe link to the actual thread(s)?

 

[Callador]

I am sure there were some "positive" experiences with Jet U when it first came out. I never really followed it too closely since I was on more of a piece-meal plan, but I am sure they did get some people into regionals when they were hiring. Once the economy went to crap and the regionals stopped hiring, that probably made things much worse.

I am happy that many people looked at this website among others to get some real information about the place. But as others have mentioned, they did have some success. I am sure when people asked those who had a good experience at Jet U about the program, they were told to attend. And that personal opinion probably held more weight than that of an anonymous post on a message board. I guess I am saying that I agree Jet U sucked, but lets at least show a little compassion for those that got screwed there.

Cave Jet U! (Beware Jet U!) The funny thing is that the Romans had signs like that. They found one that said "Cave Canem", which means Beware the Dog. The ancient and modern people both knew that you better have a sign up for a bad dog.

 

[Rosstafari]

Jet U checked out because people wanted it to check out.

Yep. Even well after there was "evidence" that Jet U was a wash, people continued to stick their fingers into their ears and insisted that it must've been a misunderstanding, a group of vengeful ex-students, the response of those who were jealous that they couldn't afford such a great program, or some other justification that'd convince themselves that it was still a good thing.

It's been my experience that, generally speaking, for some people no amount of evidence that a decision will be a poor one is sufficient to stop them. Reading through the above-linked early thread should've been enough to at least make people dig deeper, and as Gonzo mentioned, a former student even stepped forward to offer his help. I wonder how many people read through it and brushed it off.

 

[Boris Badenov]

I'm certainly not defending the SJS victims who signed up for Jet U. But if we simply say "dems da breaks", we essentially say that it's ok to defraud people of their money as long as they're dumb. This is not the Rule of Law. These swine should be in big boy jail as a warning to those who would take advantage of the stupid and ill-informed. This is why we even have a legal system.

 

[JOEFRIDAY2]

I am calling BS the school never checked out.

Here is little reading from: http://forums.jetcareers.com/search.php?searchid=1990469

Cherokee_Cruiser did go to Jet U and had nothing good to say about it. He offered to have people PM him to get the whole story.

Gonzo, your calling BS and your saying the school never checked out really doesn't mean anything does it? The bottom line is that the school did check out 3 different (and reliable) ways as I listed in the prior post.

The link that you posted is broken. Even today, almost 9 months after Jet U closed, you still don't have anything you can point to (that was posted in 2006, 2007 or 2008 that provided reliable evidence that Jet U was a scam and that people shouldn't go there. All we have is your opinion. And that opinion is from someone that didn't go to Jet U.

All of the information coming out about Jet U in the media and elsewhere is originating from the Jet U student website. Even the story in AV Webs (the one that was posted in post number 1) was given to AV Webs by the student website. That website has proven to be a reliable source of information. Even today, it is stopping some prospective students from making the same type of mistake.

The first guy that Jet U sent to Pinnacle that flunked out was an Embry Riddle graduate with all of his ratings. Is is your opinion that students should not go to Embry Riddle because this guy flunked out at Pinnacle and the next airline he went to?

ATP and Embry Riddle's students pass rate at Pinnacle was less than Jet University student's pass rate. Is it your opinion that students should not go to ATP or Embry Riddle because their pass rate is lower?

As far as Cherokee Cruiser goes, I don't know who he is, but if he did attend Jet U and was scammed he did not do an effective job in getting the word out so that others considering Jet U would know the real story. That is unfortunate.

 

[Douglas]

I'm certainly not defending the SJS victims who signed up for Jet U. But if we simply say "dems da breaks", we essentially say that it's ok to defraud people of their money as long as they're dumb. This is not the Rule of Law. These swine should be in big boy jail as a warning to those who would take advantage of the stupid and ill-informed. This is why we even have a legal system.

:clap:

 

[scooter2525]

Opinions on a forum are helpful but I wonder how many people that went to jet u went to the school to talk to pilots there about the program. If you were going to drop mad cash some due dilligance would go a long way.

 

[Bandit_Driver]

The banks are suing the companies because they know darn well the students don't have a snowball's change in hell of paying the loan back and will probably file bankrupty to get out of it. When sueing you go after the deepest pockets first.

People like Jet U and other pay to play places because a lot are from the entitlement generation and don't want to work for anything and thought they could buy their way into a job. Jet U's all up front billing just didn't pass the smell test. Would you give your contractor 250K up front to build your house? No you don't, so you don't get screwed. You make payments as various portions of the job are completed.

As far as the mortgages go the problem lies on two fronts. Shame on the person accepting a bad mortgage and one they couldn't afford in 5 years and shame on the banks essentially writing bad loans with the no doc loans and shady ways to make a loan work.

 

[JOEFRIDAY2]

Opinions on a forum are helpful but I wonder how many people that went to jet u went to the school to talk to pilots there about the program. If you were going to drop mad cash some due dilligance would go a long way.

Every prospective student that came to Jet U talked to the current students about the program before they enrolled there. Not one current student pilot told any prospective student that things were not as they were supposed to be. In fact, they verified that the program was really as advertised.

Heath Cohen did a great job of getting the students that would have said something kicked out of the place embarrassed that they were not able to finish. That allowed the scam to continue.

 

[Richman]

You can draw a line from Sarasota to Daytona Beach. Any aviation oriented enterprise south of that line, and you'd better do you due dilligence before doing ANYTHING.

That part of Florida is the fraud capital of the US (which is why my car insurance is 3x the national average), not just for aviation, but for ANYTHING. Not to mention the whole area is a tremendous "rectal portal" magnet.

Richman

 

[Gonzo]

ATP and Embry Riddle's students pass rate at Pinnacle was less than Jet University student's pass rate. Is it your opinion that students should not go to ATP or Embry Riddle because their pass rate is lower?

Where are you getting your numbers from?

As far as Cherokee Cruiser goes, I don't know who he is, but if he did attend Jet U and was scammed he did not do an effective job in getting the word out so that others considering Jet U would know the real story. That is unfortunate.

CC did go to Jet U. He got lucky and didn't get scammed but had no problem tell people a lot did get scammed.

I am very sorry you got taken but Jet U/RAA/TAB/GIA/SS all worked the same way.

 

[JOEFRIDAY2]

Where are you getting your numbers from?



CC did go to Jet U. He got lucky and didn't get scammed but had no problem tell people a lot did get scammed.

I am very sorry you got taken but Jet U/RAA/TAB/GIA/SS all worked the same way.

My numbers came from Pinnacle.