Jet Starter Units
- Thread starter mjg407
- Start date
mjg407
Well-Known Member
Electrical won't work on a P-3, needs air, minimum of 30 PSI. Our electrical requires 115 VAC 400 HZ so it's complicated. However we can battery start, just need a JASU.
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
I do not know for the bigger airports...they may have them, but I would definitely check it out before you go there as to what their capabilities are.
Smaller airports, you are lucky if they even have a GPU, much less a huffer or whatever you big plane drivers call them.
Read again what he wrote. He is wondering about a "huffer" or "blower" or whatever the term is. Does your FBO carry one? I know they'll have GPU's, but they are only good for smaller jets. According to Bombardier, the Lear 60 has the biggest P&W engines that still use an electrical starter. Bigger than that and they need pneumatic starters.
mjg407
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's exactly right. Need a Huffer, blower, etc to start the big T-56s. We currently are SOL if a tanker loses the APU on a P-3, so looking to see if there are alternatives to flying a new one up there if we should lose one.
n57flyguy
Well-Known Member
Haha, I was like a GPU isn't that hard to figure out. Thats why the PSI confused me.
Never knew that about the P-3. That would be a complicated set up to power of a generator. I can see how the battery jump would work however.
No, our FBO does not carry them. What engines are on the Lear 60? They come in quite a bit, almost always requiring a GPU...but I always figured it was becuase the APU wasn't the best performer.
mjg407, could you explain how the huffer system works and how your pneumatics starts the engines?
Thanks for clearing that up though!
n57flyguy
Well-Known Member
N519AT
Ahh! This is how I change this!
We have one available to use at my field, however we have to borrow it from one of the airlines.
Many military jets come in requesting a bottle start. I forget how much the cart holds PSI wise, but I'm not sure if it would be enough for all four engines. The thing weighs a ton and for some reason 800-1000 PSI rings a bell...
Can you do a cross bleed start on the aircraft?
Many military jets come in requesting a bottle start. I forget how much the cart holds PSI wise, but I'm not sure if it would be enough for all four engines. The thing weighs a ton and for some reason 800-1000 PSI rings a bell...
Can you do a cross bleed start on the aircraft?
mjg407
Well-Known Member
The air start unit is required (now that I read the manual) a minimum of 90 psi at 32 Pounds Per Square Inch Gauge (psig) pressure. Here's the quick blurb:
Turbine engines have large, heavy rotors that must be accelerated to a high rotational speed in order to provide sufficient air compression for self-sustaining operation. This process takes significantly longer and requires much more energy than starting a reciprocating engine. Smaller turbine engines are usually started by an electric motor, while larger turbine engines are usually started by an air turbine motor. Whether the starter is electrically, pneumatically, or hydraulically powered, however, the amount of energy required is far greater than what could be provided by a storage device (battery or air tank) of reasonable size and weight.
Here's what they typically look like..
mjg407
Well-Known Member
Yes, just need it for starting one engine. In fact, many times with a bad APU, we will hot load the retardant with two engines shutdown.
cj4pilot
Well-Known Member
Many moons ago I worked at a FBO at Santa Ana/Orange County/John Wayne airport. On the rare occasion that we needed a huffer cart we borrowed from one of the airlines. However I was the only one that they would lend it to, because I had come from the airline side. One time they called me in at 5am after getting off at 1am, because none of the airlines would loan a huffer to the morning supervisor.
The Citation X (the only Citation that uses air starters) requires an absolute minimum of 25psi start duct pressure. In case of inop APU the X can be started with a Huffer Cart, or even a buddy hose. Your company may be able to see if a buddy hose is feasible/available for the P-3 to get a aircraft out of an AOG situation and back in the air. A buddy hose can come from any other aircraft that has an acceptable bleed air supply. The check valve at the ground air inlet for the supplying aircraft needs to be removed/disabled so it can supply air to the receiving aircraft. I believe your company usually dispatches multiple aircraft to one location, only one of them would have to carry the buddy hose in cargo. Then you would have a set of "jumper cables" for your turbine air starter equipped aircraft.
The Citation X (the only Citation that uses air starters) requires an absolute minimum of 25psi start duct pressure. In case of inop APU the X can be started with a Huffer Cart, or even a buddy hose. Your company may be able to see if a buddy hose is feasible/available for the P-3 to get a aircraft out of an AOG situation and back in the air. A buddy hose can come from any other aircraft that has an acceptable bleed air supply. The check valve at the ground air inlet for the supplying aircraft needs to be removed/disabled so it can supply air to the receiving aircraft. I believe your company usually dispatches multiple aircraft to one location, only one of them would have to carry the buddy hose in cargo. Then you would have a set of "jumper cables" for your turbine air starter equipped aircraft.
Thats what we use on the UH-60; APU or -86 or buddy hose hookup.
MJG, if you need high pressure air, it'd likely be an AM32A-95 or -60. The -95 huffer provides 150 +/- 5 lbs/min @ 49 +/- 2psia (35 +/- psig). The -60 is a combined air and electrical start cart giving: air: 120 +/- 4 lbs/min (1644 +/- 55 cfm) @ 49 +/- 2psia, and electrical AC: 120/208v, 400 cycle , 3 phase, 75kva, 0.75pf, 4 wire, 120v, 1 phase, 25kva; and electrical DC: 28v, 500amp, 15kw.
mjg407
Well-Known Member
The NATOPS lists the acceptable USAF huffers as the AM32-60 or -90. Thanks for the suggestion of the buddy hose, that may work.