Jeppesen and the CIA

skydog said:
I don't know if Jepp knew about it or not. As far as legally responsible or not, I believe there have been people prosecuted for failing to intervene under Good Samaritan laws.
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??? Um........

I don't think you understand "Good Samaritan Laws".

"Good Samaritan Laws" protect individuals from liability if they render assistance to those in need.

Example: A car accident; a bystander pulls a victim out of a burning car, but in the process aggravates the victims fractured C spine, paralyzing the accident victim for life.

Good samaritan laws prevent the bystander from being sued in this situation. He was merely assisting to the best of his ability.

Myself personally, as a Certified EMT, am not legally obligated to render assistance unless I am in the employ of an EMS and on duty. If I am just driving by with my family and see a situation that I am trained to assist in, I still have no LEGAL obligation to assist.

Don't misunderstand, I have never passed by an accident with injuries and not gotten out and helped, unless EMS is already there, but the law does not require me, a trained and certified responder, to help. A person cannot be prosecuted for not doing anything.
 
bdhill1979 said:
???

Don't misunderstand, I have never passed by an accident with injuries and not gotten out and helped, unless EMS is already there, but the law does not require me, a trained and certified responder, to help. A person cannot be prosecuted for not doing anything.
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I wonder if people don't understand the rules well. I was on a Frontier Airlines flight from DCA to DEN when some poor guy threw up all over himself and fainted. The cabin crew had to ask 5 times and about 1/2 hour later, someone rang the bell and admitted they were a doctor. Maybe they didn't want to be liable? Then a few minutes later, an EMT got up too. I was wondering why it took them so long to volunteer their expertise. In the end, the guy was ok and we didn't divert.
 
Mahesh said:
I wonder if people don't understand the rules well. I was on a Frontier Airlines flight from DCA to DEN when some poor guy threw up all over himself and fainted. The cabin crew had to ask 5 times and about 1/2 hour later, someone rang the bell and admitted they were a doctor. Maybe they didn't want to be liable? Then a few minutes later, an EMT got up too. I was wondering why it took them so long to volunteer their expertise. In the end, the guy was ok and we didn't divert.
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If an off duty EMT (and I'm guessing this applies to doctors as well) renders assistance, they are obligated (and therefore liable) to continue giving assistance until:

1. EMS arrives and takes over
2. The patient is able to be sent to care (emergency room)
3. Patient expires

In our legal section of EMT training I recall the attorney that taught it saying that in the past some EMTs had been sued for beginning to render care, then leaving the scene when they felt the patient was stable and EMS would be arriving shortly, but the patient was in fact not well and died prior to EMS arriving.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit that they didnt want to help because they were concerned about being liable.
 
surreal1221 said:
Steve, the issue I have with this . . . and hopefully you'll understand it after I get it out in the open.

When private companies are providing services that are fundamentally public, or governmental, they are opening themselves up to this type of litigation. End of story.

I have no problem with Jeppesen providing services to our government. But they certainly can not expect to get off scott free when they are assisting ANYONE, whether it be another private individual, or a public establishment perform an illegal act.

Private vs Private litigation is one thing. Private organizations assisting public establishments are a different animal.

Your gillette or luisville slugger analogies are private companies vs private individuals, which have nothing to do with national security or providing a public service to the population. Hence, my assertion that it was a horrible analogy.
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So say a couple of guys driving a GM (insert model that GM supplies to the Military/Gov't) were on there way to a secret CIA base in the middle of the desert to torture some one against the Geneva Convention. Now picture some one driving the same vehicle, but made for the civilian market. He went to his ex-wifes house, killed her, put her body in the same GM truck and drove her off. Do you think they GM has more liability because the vehicle was painted some shade of green/blue/black?

If that were the case, then every supplier of any thing to the military could be liable, in your mind, for any war crimes or injuries. Last time I checked every thing from your radar scope to the bombs on the F-16's were made by a private company "assisting" the military.

Contractors give their product to the Gov't to do what it wishes. General Dynamics doesn't get a say so as to where its weapons are used.

Now, the CIA sub-contracting/privatizing existing services, when another branch of the gov't already provides such service. That's a whole other can o' worms.
 
surreal1221 said:
Steve, the issue I have with this . . . and hopefully you'll understand it after I get it out in the open.

When private companies are providing services that are fundamentally public, or governmental, they are opening themselves up to this type of litigation. End of story.

I have no problem with Jeppesen providing services to our government. But they certainly can not expect to get off scott free when they are assisting ANYONE, whether it be another private individual, or a public establishment perform an illegal act.

Private vs Private litigation is one thing. Private organizations assisting public establishments are a different animal.

Your gillette or luisville slugger analogies are private companies vs private individuals, which have nothing to do with national security or providing a public service to the population. Hence, my assertion that it was a horrible analogy.
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Seriously dude, you're starting to sound like a ####ing fascist. Don't throw the coffee mug at the dude, you're wrong.

(Points if somebody can name the movie reference)
 
Minnesota_Flyer said:
Maybe it's just me. But if I have a problem with something you did, I'm going to take it up with you. Not go punch your chauffeur.
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And in this case it's not even the chauffeur, but the guy that sold the chauffeur some road maps and directions to the motel that's getting punched...


:insane:
 
Hey jtrain,

in one thread I said:

Be humble, leave the ego at home, be willing to learn, be positive, and help other people.
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you responded:

Ahh......
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Already in one thread, you called me 'effing kids and their mentality.'

And now, this you said to someone else:

jtrain609 said:
Seriously dude, you're starting to sound like a ####ing fascist.
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Dropping the eff bomb is like another day in the world of jtrain? tsk tsk tsk. Must be a pleasure to fly with ya!
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Hey jtrain,

in one thread I said:



you responded:




Already in one thread, you called me 'effing kids and their mentality.'

And now, this you said to someone else:



Dropping the eff bomb is like another day in the world of jtrain? tsk tsk tsk. Must be a pleasure to fly with ya!
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You're obviously not a golfer.

(It's a line from a movie, bro)
 
jtrain609 said:
You're obviously not a golfer.

(It's a line from a movie, bro)
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Hello! Hello! So every time... I just want to understand this, sir... every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate?
 
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