Is Vegas really that busy!

I flew into LAS once, I remember they left me very high and dumped me onto final. Not that is was a problem, just wasn't expecting it.
 
L30. Thanks for joining JC.

I gotta ask you this.

There was once a lot of talk about accepting visuals into LAS if you were on the ILS to 25. This was several years ago. But supposedly if you followed the glideslope down it would take you just out of class B at one point. And the talk was that LAS approach controllers would watch to see you bust it and call the FSDO. Like I said, this was probably 10 years ago. I'm too laid back to worry about crap like this, personally.

But do you think there is any fact to it or is it an urban legend?
 
Our Class B is not designed very well just like most of our procedures and airspace. A majority of arrivals into LAS enter, leave and then reenter the Class B. They are in the process of redesigning the Bravo but they have been saying that for years.
 
DE727UPS said:
L30. Thanks for joining JC.

I gotta ask you this.

There was once a lot of talk about accepting visuals into LAS if you were on the ILS to 25. This was several years ago. But supposedly if you followed the glideslope down it would take you just out of class B at one point. And the talk was that LAS approach controllers would watch to see you bust it and call the FSDO. Like I said, this was probably 10 years ago. I'm too laid back to worry about crap like this, personally.

But do you think there is any fact to it or is it an urban legend?
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What would there be to bust you about? A visual approach is still part of your IFR clearance, so you're still IFR and at that point it doesn't matter what airspace you're in regardless if it's Alpha-Echo.
 
L30 ATC said:
I am a controller at Las Vegas TRACON and I will try and answer some of your questions. First of all, yes we really are that busy! When flying to VGT you will be routed one of two ways. The first and most common is outside the Class B staying to the west of LAS. The second and less common routing is east of I15, directly over HND airport then overfly the LAS RY 25 numbers and then on to VGT. The reason why we can't give you the second routing most of the time is because it is a narrow corridor that is mainly used to climb southbound LAS/VGT IFR departures and ALL HND arrivals/departures. It is basically a one in one out corridor because of terrain and high MVA's. Also, in Class B airspace we are required to separate you from the IFR's so keeping you outside the bravo is more often than not our only option. If we are landing RY 25 or 19 at LAS there is a better chance of you getting the HND routing. If we are landing on RY 1 or 7 you will not get the routing and chances are you will not get any service either due to the high workload. You are right about us not being VFR friendly. We can only use about 30% of our allotted airspace and airliners have priority. You may not like it but that's just the way it is. Due to terrain there really isn't any other way to get you to your destination any faster. My suggestion to you and any other pilot that is not comfortable flying in mountainous and turbulent conditions with high density altitude is DON'T!! If you have any questions please feel free to ask.
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I never could understand the idea of routing (delay vectors) VFR traffic in class E airspace. Last time I was inbound to VGT I asked for a class B clearance and got denied, then I was given a vectore out to some 'red something' casino, which was entirely in Class E/G. No chance I'm going to get a delay vector in Class E airspace. I canceled and went direct under the B. I get FF 99% of the time but LAS is the one and only place that I don't even bother.

It's certainly a bummer the airspace/procedures is a mess there. Hopefully it gets sorted soon but we shouldn't be holding our breath.
 
crazyjaydawg said:
What would there be to bust you about? A visual approach is still part of your IFR clearance, so you're still IFR and at that point it doesn't matter what airspace you're in regardless if it's Alpha-Echo.
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Maybe there'd be an issue if they were doing over 200 knots?
 
"I never could understand the idea of routing (delay vectors) VFR traffic in class E airspace. Last time I was inbound to VGT I asked for a class B clearance and got denied, then I was given a vectore out to some 'red something' casino, which was entirely in Class E/G. No chance I'm going to get a delay vector in Class E airspace. I canceled and went direct under the B. I get FF 99% of the time but LAS is the one and only place that I don't even bother."



In the future you may want to take the "delay vectors" because they just might keep your ass alive! We don't vector you to delay you, we vector you over the Red Rock Casino which keeps you just outside the western edge of the Class B to keep you out of the way of departing traffic off RY 25R. If you knew how close the departures and traffic staying under the Bravo to and from VGT actually get, you wouldn't be complaining.
 
RPJ said:
LAS is great 99% of the time when working with "RUBY's"... thanks!
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I think the Ruby's and all of the helicopter companies should see if you can get your own permanent beacon codes. That way when all of you are all calling at the same time to return it won't be so chaotic.
 
"Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, a LARGE TURBINE-POWERED airplane operating to or from a primary airport in Class B airspace MUST operate AT or ABOVE the FLOORS of the Class B airspace while within the lateral limits of that area even when operating on a visual approach."

I believe the issue was if you were on glideslope for 25, there was an spot where you would drop below the class B. If you were cleared for the ILS, that implies you are "otherwise authorized by ATC". If you were on a visual, the idea was you needed to be authorized by ATC to slip below the class B for a moment and nobody ever bothered to ask for that. It was supposed to be a "gotcha" at one time but nobody talks about it anymore.

There following is on our Jepp 10-10 page, which is airport info that caters to UPS ops.

"ARRIVAL

Use caution not to descend below floor of Class B Airspace on a visual approach"
 
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