Is this PFT

M

meritflyer

Well-Known Member
When schools have time building programs such as ATP or Westwind - is that considered PFT? Frowned on by the airlines?
 
Not considered PFT, since you're not paying for a job (technically, anyways)...you're building flight experience. As far as airlines frowning upon it, there are rumors that some airlines will not count it/frown heavily upon it (regionals, anyways). Some say it's not quality flight time.

PS I'm just the messenger of some unsubstantiated rumors, so please aim elsewhere...don't shoot the messenger.

TX
 
"Even if you PFT airlines don't care"

Yeah. Airlines don't care. Pilot interviewers and line pilots for the rest of your career might, though. Just ask me....
 
DE727UPS said:
"Even if you PFT airlines don't care"

Yeah. Airlines don't care. Pilot interviewers and line pilots for the rest of your career might, though. Just ask me....
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So you're going to give someone a hard time for a bad decision they made 10-15 years ago? Seems professional to me.

People usually only go PFT because they're uneducated. If you want to make a big deal out of a decision made by someone who has no idea what they're doing, go for it.

Pilot drama!!!!!
 
Yes, I have and will, especially when there's so much knowledge out there today.

I'll guarantee anybody that has worked at Key Lime, Gulfstream, etc. know what they are doing...they try to hide it later down the road. I'm not in hiring now, but I will be one of these days.;) And I've handed in my share of recommendations, etc. for people. I have no sympathies for people who PFT.
 
"People usually only go PFT because they're uneducated."

Agreed


"If you want to make a big deal out of a decision made by someone who has no idea what they're doing, go for it"

I do and will. Is this really your opinon or are you just trying to play the "devils advocate" to stir up debate? I'm never quite sure with you....
 
scoobs said:
Even if you PFT airlines don't care.
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People DO care about this stuff - even at the CFI level. We had a guy interview at the flight school that had done some PFT freight dog thing to build his multi time. Now, out flight school manager and the other CFI at the interview knew nothing about this PFT crap, but I did. After raking him over the coals about it for a while to make him miserable, we told him thanks but no thanks.

So, yes, it will come back to bite you.
 
Paying for flight time is not PFT, so anything offered by ATP or Westwind is good to go. It's the same as buying a Seminole to build time in- you're paying for flight time, not for the job. As to whether it's qality time? Sheesh, that depends on who you ask!
 
Ok, wait a second here- I'm definitely not sure where I stand on this issue. I'm not willing to do it myself, but that's only because I'm leary of why any company would want or not to offer that to new pilots- hmmmm, shady??

Anyway, so from what I've heard, a vast majority of the pilots that have never PFT'd wouldn't give a pilot who has, the time of day. To actually play The Devil's Advocate, is this perhaps, a little jealousy? To be fair, I agree, that might not be quality flight time (I actually have no idea). However, if I were sizing up a new pilot, I would use the "all around" evaluation, not just one line on their resume.

To anyone who has or will interview pilots someday, please give everyone a fair chance. This is a sore spot with me, because I flew skydivers and I think that's quality flight time, though some people don't (probably people who've never regularly flown an airplane to it's limits). Sure, it's not IFR and it's not always the best equipment (and maybe some clubs do some crazy things), but anyone who's flown skydivers knows you learn some valuable lessons while flying a jump plane.
 
falconvalley said:
. . . but that's only because I'm leary of why any company would want or not to offer that to new pilots . . .
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That's reason enough . . .

Anyway, so from what I've heard, a vast majority of the pilots that have never PFT'd wouldn't give a pilot who has, the time of day.
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I can only speak for myself, but that's fairly accurate!

To actually play The Devil's Advocate, is this perhaps, a little jealousy?
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Not at all - what is there to be jealous about? Jealous because this person wasn't able to be hired by their own merits and thus had to PAY for a job??

Yeah, I'm jealous . . .

However, if I were sizing up a new pilot, I would use the "all around" evaluation, not just one line on their resume.
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Would you overlook the line that says "DUI"? How about the line that says "Only one FAA enforcement action"? Where do you draw the line?

To anyone who has or will interview pilots someday, please give everyone a fair chance.
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They had a fair chance before they wenmt out and bought a job, trying to get something for nothing . . .
 
falcon, I was a jump plane pilot for a short time, and I can say that the experience definitely improves your stick skills as well as your judgment and priotitization. I'd definitely consider jump plane experience as a plus, but I may be in a minority.

As for the PFTers, I don't think it's so much jealousy as it is defending your job. If everyone was willing to pay for training, it would translate to lower pay scales, and that hurts us all. It's just not worth it to take the shortcut. The argument is similar to refusing to work for the low-ball airlines like Mesa: If no one would apply for thier abhorrent pay and contract, they would have to up the ante to meet hiring goals by making the job more enticing.

The new guys control more than they think. Be diciplined, have confidence in how much your skills are worth, don't cheat yourself and eveyone else by selling out, and we will all profit for it!
 
mtsu_av8er- so would you assume that someone who PFT'd tried and failed to get hired at other companies? And would you assume that was because they aren't someone you would want to hire?

I definitely draw the line with integrity, if you actually care to know. If someone with a DUI actually got to interview with a manager like me, I'd be very curious about the DUI. That is, if I were in a position like that and they actually made it past the "to interview or to not interview this candidate" decision.

Come on, this is easy stuff!!
 
So not so many missunderstand me, I don't know anything about PFT jobs. I'm not willing to fork over my money for something like that and don't like the idea of working for a company like that in the first place. But, I don't think it's fair to look past someone who has done it primarily on the basis of their PFT. I'm all about hiring the best people for the company and the job.
 
falconvalley said:
mtsu_av8er- so would you assume that someone who PFT'd tried and failed to get hired at other companies?
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No, I assume that they don't even have the work ethic to TRY!! Why should they? They can just write a check and buy the job!!

And would you assume that was because they aren't someone you would want to hire?
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The reason that I wouldn't want to hire him/her is obvious!

I definitely draw the line with integrity, if you actually care to know.
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Very subjective . . .

If someone with a DUI actually got to interview with a manager like me, I'd be very curious about the DUI. That is, if I were in a position like that and they actually made it past the "to interview or to not interview this candidate" decision.
Oh, we had to interview him! After I saw where he got his "multi time", I couldn't wait to find out how he explained that one!! I'll tell ya, it was a hoot!!

Come on, this is easy stuff!!
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Very - they don't get hired!!
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I don't see any logic behind generalizing about that. I see your point, but you're generalizing. That must be the difference between you and me here. I'm not generalizing. I would probably not hire someone that showed signs of making poor decisions.
 
falconvalley said:
I don't see any logic behind generalizing about that. I see your point, but you're generalizing. That must be the difference between you and me here. I'm not generalizing. I would probably not hire someone that showed signs of making poor decisions.
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How am I generalizing? Sorry if you see it that way . . .
 
I'm not sorry. I take pride in my professional life! I don't need to go over this thread and repeat what has already been said. You took your position and it's obvious. You probably assume and then imply. If that's your only point, then it's pointless to me, personally.

I'm honest, and I'm fair. I don't like people who aren't. That's my point. You have to ask yourself, is PFT honest? Is it fair? Maybe not in some cases, but by just blazing off that you would assume that someone intended to bypass working hard just because they PFTd is also not fair. How can you beat laziness and lack of integrity by not giving someone a fair chance to explain themself? That's what the interview is for in the first place!
 
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