is this book worth getting?

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maybe that's why I don't fly with former F-14 pilots...

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Not even TomCatter?

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LMAO


Bwwahhhh!!! That was good MikeD. Just when the Tomcatter legacy was fading, WHAM, right back. I love it. I am going to PM giants_fan on this, too funny!
 
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And I have dropped CFI's over smaller things than that!!! The way I see it, I tell HIM what books I'm going to use - He's my employee!!!

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Trying to remember where I've encountered this attitude before...oh yeah, it's the old "I've learned everything I need to know about flying from Microsoft Flight Simulator, now shut up and sign my logbook!"
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One CFI I flew with (prior to a job-relocation-induced switch to another) told me to pick up the Gleim book to prepare for the written. I recall thumbing my nose at the suggestion and shelled out for the Jeppesen pvt pilot kit instead. I ended up getting the Gleim later anyway and got a 98 on the written thanks to it (the moral of that story is use Gleim to get the written out of the way early on so you can focus on actually learning the stuff for your oral).

Bottom line, you're paying a CFI for his/her training advice--which you're certainly free to ignore, but that's not very cost-effective or particularly wise, IMHO.
 
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And I have dropped CFI's over smaller things than that!!! The way I see it, I tell HIM what books I'm going to use - He's my employee!!!

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Trying to remember where I've encountered this attitude before...oh yeah, it's the old "I've learned everything I need to know about flying from Microsoft Flight Simulator, now shut up and sign my logbook!"
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Well, you know - we all learn differently! I've only used a Gleim once, and that's because it was a required text for a course. Other than that (even though they've been reccomended by everyone), I don't like them!

My point is quite simply that I hire my CFI, and he has to keep me happy. If he doesn't, there are plenty of CFIs out there that are willing to take my money. I see a CFI as a professional worth every dime that I give him, but he has to earn it. If he wants to recommend a book, then he can do that, and 99% of the time, I will listen.

But for him to demand that I buy a book that wasn't published by the FAA? First of all, he doesn't have that authority, and second of all, he can't demand anything of the guy that keeps his lights on!!! All he has to do is recommend!!!

Would you keep going to your mechanic if he said that he refused to work on your car unless you drove exactly the way he wanted you to?? Probably not!!

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Bottom line, you're paying a CFI for his/her training advice--which you're certainly free to ignore, but that's not very cost-effective or particularly wise, IMHO.


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Advice is different from "refusing to fly with you unless you have a book". I alwas take advice into consideration. But sometimes I choose not to listen, and I have to learn the hard way!! Cost effectiveness?? Well, I've gotten all of my ratings pretty daggon close to the minimum times required by the FAA, so I'd say that my flying has been pretty effective!

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oh yeah, it's the old "I've learned everything I need to know about flying from Microsoft Flight Simulator, now shut up and sign my logbook!"

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No, I've got alot to learn....a whole lot. I know far from everything. Don't hate because you're no good at video games, and you take life too seriously to have total fun!!!!
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(teasing)
 
I hear what you're saying but hiring a CFI isn't like hiring a hooker; you're not paying your CFI to pleasure you, but to turn you into a competent pilot. If ya think about it, it's more like hiring a personal trainer to whip your fat carcass into shape. And without the benefit of his/her training/experience, who are YOU to question his recommendations? That's as silly as OJ questioning Johnny Cochran's advice. (And yes, I'd consider Cochran to be a 747 captain of the legal world.)

Now, asking your instructor why they're so insistent on your having a copy of the ASA maneuvers book and they'll probably tell you they think it's extremely helpful and a worthwhile investment in your training. Kicking them to the curb for this opinion is just penny-wise and pound-foolish.
 
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And without the benefit of his/her training/experience, who are YOU to question his recommendations?

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His employer, his customer.

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Now, asking your instructor why they're so insistent on your having a copy of the ASA maneuvers book and they'll probably tell you they think it's extremely helpful and a worthwhile investment in your training. Kicking them to the curb for this opinion is just penny-wise and pound-foolish.

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I've had alot of people suggest alot of books. I agree with you in that I'll probably learn something by reading what an instructor suggests! you're not hearing me - I wouldn't fire an instructor for suggesting that I read a book - I'd fire him for refusing to fly with me unless I read it!!! Do you see what I'm saying? It's a principle thing. I'd probably read the book, but by my own choice. He can't force me to read ANYTHING!! See what I'm saying?
 
If an instructor is going to force you to read something, then he/she already has no problem with you finding someone else because of that. A CFI owes you NOTHING except quality instruction for your money. You do not tell them what to do.

Personally, I don't require my students to read anything in particular, but some instructors do, and that's fine too. A CFI's job is to make their student a good pilot, they will (most of them) work with the student to make that happen and to make it an enjoyable experience, but there are limits.

If you refuse to do something the CFI requires of you, then that is your loss. A good CFI will only require something of you if it's a benifit, and by refusing to do that on the principle that you're paying the CFI so you're calling the shots is shooting yourself in the foot. Yes, you are a paying customer, but the CFI is in charge, not you. If I meet a CFI who thinks differently, then I would be scared to fly with them.

Think of it this way, would you tell your doctor how to fix you? Don't think so. If you don't like the way he/she does it, go to someone else, which I know you are doing, but don't expect your CFI to care.
 
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If you refuse to do something the CFI requires of you, then that is your loss.


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Huh?

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A good CFI will only require something of you if it's a benifit, and by refusing to do that on the principle that you're paying the CFI so you're calling the shots is shooting yourself in the foot.


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No, it isn't! He's the boss if I'm a private pilot student and he's teaching me. When we're on the ground, he can't force me to do anything!!

As I went through all of my flight training, I realized a couple of things. First off, I'm the paying customer! Whether the CFI likes it or not, (s)he's in a service-oriented profession!! In today's economy, a CFI doesn't have the luxury of demanding things of students that are willing to walk across the street to find another instructor! Doesn't work that way!

I'm working with a guy right now, training him for his CFII. I strongly recommended that he make his own lesson plans, because he would learn more than he would by just buying the ones off of the shelf.

This student, however, didn't want to make his own. He wanted to but them off the shelf. So, what did I say? OK!! That's up to him!! If it takes him 90 hours of groundschool to be ready for a checkride, then that's when I'll sign him off! I can suggest, but I can't make him! HE is the paying customer, and all I can do is say, "I told you so".

So, what would he do if I said, "Well, although you are permitted to use commercially available lesson plans, I refuse to teach you unless you make your own."? He would have found a new instructor!!!!

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If I meet a CFI who thinks differently, then I would be scared to fly with them.


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Sorry....

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Think of it this way, would you tell your doctor how to fix you? Don't think so.


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If I don't like a particular treatment, I won't have it! If the doctor "DEMANDS" that I have this surgery, then I'll probably curse him out for making demands, and go to his competition - and have the surgery done!! It isn't about me knowing best, it's about him demanding such things of me!

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If you don't like the way he/she does it, go to someone else, which I know you are doing, but don't expect your CFI to care.

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He'll care when I tell all my buddies that he's a power-hungry bastage, and that they should do their training someplace else!!!!
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It's called customer service!!!!
 
If you don't hate your CFI at least once, he probably isn't really doing his job!
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If you refuse to do something the CFI requires of you, then that is your loss.


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Huh?


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Huh what?

Seems to be a perfectly valid statement to me.
 
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If you don't hate your CFI at least once, he probably isn't really doing his job!

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I Agree, one hundred percent.



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Huh what?

Seems to be a perfectly valid statement to me.

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I understand that I'd be losing out on this instructor's wisdom, and that he has a job to do, and that by not taking his advise, I might be limiting myself in what I can learn.

I also know that you can pass FAA writtens without studying the Gleim. Am I saying that instructors shouldn't recommend things to students? No, everybody recommends these things!

Do I think that this instructor would be hurt or upset if I found a new CFI? Probably not! Not concern isn't with making him happy in this regard. My concern is me.

We all agree that having new carpet in your house would probably make it a little bit easier to sell, right? Do you have to have new carpet in your house to sell it? Of course not!

So, if a realtor told you that (s)he refused to put help you sell your house unless you had new carpet, would you continue doing business with that idiot?
 
Mostly my point, which I probably didn't make clear, was that you can not tell your instructor what to do. A good instructor will accept feedback and possibly modify things based on it, but you can't force them to.

You can take your business elsewhere if you want, but if your reasons for doing so are simply because you don't want to do what your instructor says, then it won't make a damn bit of difference to the instructor, in fact, he/she would probably be happy to see you go.

You pay someone to teach you how to fly, so let them do their job. If you have a problem with how they're doing it, then let them know about it. If it's something as trivial as reading a book, then think about it before you give them the boot on principle. Do you switch schools everytime you have to buy a required book for a class? Why not? What's the difference? You're a paying customer at school too, why should they make you read a specific book?
 
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Mostly my point, which I probably didn't make clear, was that you can not tell your instructor what to do. A good instructor will accept feedback and possibly modify things based on it, but you can't force them to.


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Just as he can give me feedback and suggest that I read a book, but he can't force me to. It's a two-way street!

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You can take your business elsewhere if you want, but if your reasons for doing so are simply because you don't want to do what your instructor says, then it won't make a damn bit of difference to the instructor, in fact, he/she would probably be happy to see you go.

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The we'll both be happy!!

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You pay someone to teach you how to fly, so let them do their job. If you have a problem with how they're doing it, then let them know about it. If it's something as trivial as reading a book, then think about it before you give them the boot on principle.


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I wouldn't drop an instructor because he wants me to read a book! I'd drop him because he " . . .won't teach me unless I read that book". Believe me, I'm going to tell him, "If I have the time between doing the others things that I have going on in my life, then I'll read it. However, if it's not required by the FAA, a part 141 syllabus or some other regulatory entity, you can't force me to read it". If he's as professional as I'd like all of my instructors to be, he won't come across so demanding. He'll say, "Lloyd, I really think that it would be a good idea if you read this book, and here are my reasons". At that point, I'm all ears! I'll get the book, and most likely learn something!

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Do you switch schools everytime you have to buy a required book for a class? Why not? What's the difference? You're a paying customer at school too, why should they make you read a specific book?

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If a regulatory entity (the University) says that I need to take a class, then I'll take it! If that means that I have to read a book, then I will!

However, if my professor says, "I refuse to let you take this course unless you read 'Lesbian Seagull, because I think it's the greatest thing'. . .", or some crap like that, well....I won't be reading Lesbian Seagull!! An advisor can't make up his or her own rules.

If that same advisor said, "You know, Lloyd, I think that 'Lesbian Seagull' will enhance your college experience, and help you deal with the challenges at hand", then I'm all about some gay female birds!!

Does what I'm saying make sense? I wouldn't be firing my instructor because he wanted me to read a book, I'd be firing him for the way he came across!
 
So what if the (non 141) school the CFI worked for required the reading? If that wouldn't put you off, then what's the difference between that and an independent CFI?
 
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You're not hearing me - I wouldn't fire an instructor for suggesting that I read a book - I'd fire him for refusing to fly with me unless I read it!!! Do you see what I'm saying? It's a principle thing. I'd probably read the book, but by my own choice. He can't force me to read ANYTHING!! See what I'm saying?

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I'm hearing you, I see what you're saying, but it's coming across as an anti-authority "you're not the boss of me" rant...to me, anyway. YMMV.

IMHO, if you wanna be a golfer and you somehow manage to get Tiger Woods to agree to coach you--but only under the condition that you go buy and read a certain book, you damn well better go buy/read the book! Like I said, it's patently silly (and as I said above, indicative of one of the 5 hazardous pilot attitudes) to question your instructor's judgment over a $10 book--particularly when your instructor has F-14/B747 credentials.
 
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You're not hearing me - I wouldn't fire an instructor for suggesting that I read a book - I'd fire him for refusing to fly with me unless I read it!!! Do you see what I'm saying? It's a principle thing. I'd probably read the book, but by my own choice. He can't force me to read ANYTHING!! See what I'm saying?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm hearing you, I see what you're saying, but it's coming across as an anti-authority "you're not the boss of me" rant...to me, anyway. YMMV.

IMHO, if you wanna be a golfer and you somehow manage to get Tiger Woods to agree to coach you--but only under the condition that you go buy and read a certain book, you damn well better go buy/read the book! Like I said, it's patently silly (and as I said above, indicative of one of the 5 hazardous pilot attitudes) to question your instructor's judgment over a $10 book--particularly when your instructor has F-14/B747 credentials.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, my....you're absolutely right....
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I'm not anti-authority. And you're correct - he won't give a hoot if I leave and bring my money elsewhere! And you guys shouldn't be upset or worried, because that'll free up more flight slots for the two of you! There you go, easier scheduling!!

I acknowledge that the CFI knows best in most scenarios. But I also know that I have certain things that are important to me. One of them is that my CFI knows more than I do (most of the time. And that's cool! That's why I go to him! I don't mind him teaching me, correcting me, even screaming his head off at me if I'm screwing up!!! Those don't bother me.

I still pay his salary, though. he'd just better remember that.
 
ok Aloft - YMMV - "You Must Move Vehicle?" "You Mush Mangos into V8?"

Everytime I think I have it figured out somebody comes up with a new one.

I give up
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