stevenzerafa
New Member
That sucks. Thanks for the quick reply
is the ATP airline career pilot program worth it?
- Thread starter djmoon1988
- Start date
That sucks. Thanks for the quick reply
juxtapilot
Snowflake
+1
I think its great information. People do NOT realize how TERRIBLE debt is. Unless you're paying mostly in cash, training to be a pilot is not a wise decision at this point in time. ATP gets you the same certs as any other flight school. The cost of ATP right now is about the same as everywhere else, and in some cases maybe a little higher. If you can do it without taking out loans then go for it.
I just talked to a friend I went to ATP with. He finished last march, doesn't have a job CFIing yet, and his payments start in 2 months. 588/month. Think this through as best you can.
Doubtful.
DL31082
Well-Known Member
I completely agree about not getting into a mountain of debt. Specially since the interest rates I've been hearing are in the mid to high teens. Its hard enough with my 5.2%. I would never recommend getting into debt. For the person in question that has already paid the deposit at this point its kind of a done deal. He will not get his deposit back, that is why it is called an unrefundable deposit.
I know there was not any kind of internet at the apartments in ATL, at least until the students decided to get it installed. Of course as soon as they got done they disconnected it.
I know there was not any kind of internet at the apartments in ATL, at least until the students decided to get it installed. Of course as soon as they got done they disconnected it.
djmoon1988
Well-Known Member
i come back like a month later to find that this thread has exploded. thanks for all the information guys, appreciate it
SIUav8er
Narcosis
I thoroughly enjoyed my time at ATP. Sure, it isnt for everyone, but what training option is?
I am not saying that ATP is the best option in this economic climate, but the program is great for most people(not all). Saying it is not enjoyable because it is fast paced isnt accurate.
+1. I had a good time to. But, like SIU clearly stated, it's not for everyone.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
$20k for just over 100 hours, time is time I suppose. Sure is frustrating.
Sounds to me like your struggling with something, your instructor sucks, or they are roping you for money. Do you need some help? PM sent.
DaveC
Well-Known Member
Wow that's high. Both in terms of hours and cost per hour. Did the school just charge a ton for the plane or was there a lot of one-on-one ground?
We do a 40 hour groundschool for around $500 (including all required books), then $105/hr solo wet rate and $35/hr for air or ground instruction. The most costly private pilot I've seen through here barely broke $10,000.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
I pay $135/hr for the 172R, $155 for the S if the R isn't available. $55/hr for flight instruction. There are also fuel surcharges depending on what gas costs. It was $13/hr extra for a year or two, then they eliminated it, now it is $8/hr extra. I had 3 stage checks, 2 cost me about $300, one cost me about $500. My failed check-ride was $450. I paid a one time fee of $300 for a weekly ground school I can come to for life, but its only once a week and I usually work when it is held so that doesn't help me much. And since they only cover one subject a week, it rarely works out to where I have the day off AND they're covering something I really need help in. The whole school is set up to save you money by not having to do much ground with your CFI and focus more on flying while learning the ground stuff at ground school. That worked for me two years ago in High School but not now with school and work, and I forgot most of the ground stuff I learned back then. I've probably done 15-20 hours of one-on-one ground with my CFI, but I never seem to retain it. Hell, the day before my checkride we went over a ton of stuff then 24 hours later during the oral I couldn't remember any of it. I feel like he tells me things rather than teaches them to me, if that makes sense. The other CFI I did some ground with was the same way.
I'm in a crappy situation right now, and I'm sure its not typical of most people who fly at FBOs. However, due to wx and money, all my time is spread out over 4 years. I rarely fly more than twice in a month, if even. I'm just in a hamster wheel burning money but not getting anywhere. And I'm starting to look more and more into a place like ATP once I earn my private to earn the rest of my ratings. The whole flat fee and fly everyday thing sounds pretty good to me right about now. Yes, I'd be in debt, and up until now I haven't owed a penny for flying. But then again, look where that has gotten me. I've had a blast FLYING at an FBO as far as flying where I want and getting to see and do what I want to see and do. But with 102 hours, almost all of it dual, and nearing the $20,000 mark, I will honestly say I would have rather gone to a school where you get 40 hours of back to back flying to pre-determined airports at a fixed cost. At least if I did what ATP offers in JAX(I think) for the PPL or something similar, my other 62 hours would have included flying friends around having a blast rather than feeling like an idiot and questioning if my CFI is milking me or really trying to help me along.
If you're just starting now with no time and sitting on the fence, take my post here as a worst case scenario. I'm not saying this WILL happen to you, but it CAN. At a school with a fixed price where you fly everyday, it CAN'T happen. Make sure you consider all the possible outcomes. If I could start over, I'd have done it VERY differently.
I'm in a crappy situation right now, and I'm sure its not typical of most people who fly at FBOs. However, due to wx and money, all my time is spread out over 4 years. I rarely fly more than twice in a month, if even. I'm just in a hamster wheel burning money but not getting anywhere. And I'm starting to look more and more into a place like ATP once I earn my private to earn the rest of my ratings. The whole flat fee and fly everyday thing sounds pretty good to me right about now. Yes, I'd be in debt, and up until now I haven't owed a penny for flying. But then again, look where that has gotten me. I've had a blast FLYING at an FBO as far as flying where I want and getting to see and do what I want to see and do. But with 102 hours, almost all of it dual, and nearing the $20,000 mark, I will honestly say I would have rather gone to a school where you get 40 hours of back to back flying to pre-determined airports at a fixed cost. At least if I did what ATP offers in JAX(I think) for the PPL or something similar, my other 62 hours would have included flying friends around having a blast rather than feeling like an idiot and questioning if my CFI is milking me or really trying to help me along.
If you're just starting now with no time and sitting on the fence, take my post here as a worst case scenario. I'm not saying this WILL happen to you, but it CAN. At a school with a fixed price where you fly everyday, it CAN'T happen. Make sure you consider all the possible outcomes. If I could start over, I'd have done it VERY differently.
Wow, that is an awful story. Sorry to hear about all the trouble you've had getting a PPL. Honestly I think you should consider finishing the PPL at a different school and just calling it good. Spending 20,000 + ATP's cost whatever that is now is probably too much to invest in a career (if thats what you're looking at) that you won't see returns in for quite some time.
As far as recommending ATP I would say it has positives and negatives. I went through a few years ago and I am currently in a good job flying but I am still facing that loan payment every month.
On the plus side you will get things done quickly (which may or may not matter in the near future).
On the negative side you probably won't enjoy flying, it will feel like a job from day one. As previously stated you'll have the loan to contend with for the next xx years (depending on your loan).
As far as "hidden costs" someone already went over this but there is a pro-rated structure that comes into effect if you either quit the program or are forced out. When I was going through the training an older man got forced out and basically after all was said and done he had about $15,000 of his ~$56,000 loan returned to him and he didn't even have an instrument ticket. So basically, if you start don't even consider leaving.
As far as airplanes go it really varies by location. If you're going somewhere like PHX, DAB, or GKY you will most likely fly the newer Seminoles. However, if you choose a location like RIV you'll be flying left over 79s coming up on the wing spar AD.
Anyway, I can't say my experience with ATP was bad because I am in a good spot currently...but I also can't say I enjoy making that loan payment every month.
Good luck.
As far as recommending ATP I would say it has positives and negatives. I went through a few years ago and I am currently in a good job flying but I am still facing that loan payment every month.
On the plus side you will get things done quickly (which may or may not matter in the near future).
On the negative side you probably won't enjoy flying, it will feel like a job from day one. As previously stated you'll have the loan to contend with for the next xx years (depending on your loan).
As far as "hidden costs" someone already went over this but there is a pro-rated structure that comes into effect if you either quit the program or are forced out. When I was going through the training an older man got forced out and basically after all was said and done he had about $15,000 of his ~$56,000 loan returned to him and he didn't even have an instrument ticket. So basically, if you start don't even consider leaving.
As far as airplanes go it really varies by location. If you're going somewhere like PHX, DAB, or GKY you will most likely fly the newer Seminoles. However, if you choose a location like RIV you'll be flying left over 79s coming up on the wing spar AD.
Anyway, I can't say my experience with ATP was bad because I am in a good spot currently...but I also can't say I enjoy making that loan payment every month.
Good luck.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Eh, I can do ATP for under $40k, seeing as I've spent more than twice on my PPL than pretty much anyone I know, I'm guessing IFR+Multi+Comm+CFI is going to be more than $40k. We'll see, I'm just considering it at this point since I'm way less likely to get screwed over there the way I did doing things on my own time.
Don't let people sway your opnion because your PPL has cost you more than usual. If it's what you want to do, than do it. If you take longer than most, than expect it. But for goodness sake, itf it's what you want, than go and get it!:beer:
Jerry Hagan
New Member
Housing will cost you. Extra time can be pulled from other parts of the program is you need, but that could hurt you in the long run. Otherwise you have to pay out of pocket. Examiner fees are out of pocket. Training bundle is out of pocket...$450. An iPad (with data plan) and software is out of pocket...$800. Also, don't expect to finish in prescribed time frame b/c no instructor or planes available at times, no examiner available at times, and weather...especially weather. ATP does NOT build in any time for these setbacks. ATP will say they build time in. They absolutely do not. They will unapologetically tell you it is your responsibility to make up the time (i.e. fly twice a day). If you get too far off schedule, they will discontinue you. At the end of the day I would not at all recommend ATP. They really just want your money and are not good people. The instructors are very overworked, but do care. The admin and those above just care about their bottom line and don't treat their instructors or students with much respect.
Calvin and Hobbs Meter
Well-Known Member
Jerry, you restarted a thread that is over 5 years old...
Funny, but, the iPad didn't even exist a month before the original post was written. Oh how time flies. Thank goodness for Foreflight.
Funny, but, the iPad didn't even exist a month before the original post was written. Oh how time flies. Thank goodness for Foreflight.