Is PC-12 SIC Time worth anything?

Rodger Wilco

Rodger Wilco

Well-Known Member
Quick question! I have an opportunity to fly right seat for a company in a Pilatus PC-12. I think that their 135 opp spec requires a SIC so I can log it, but is SEL SIC worth anything at all? Will any future employers value it?
 
joe.wyo said:
Quick question! I have an opportunity to fly right seat for a company in a Pilatus PC-12. I think that their 135 opp spec requires a SIC so I can log it, but is SEL SIC worth anything at all? Will any future employers value it?
Click to expand...

The question is how much does this employer value it? If they value you at $12/hr then I'd probably pass... It's not always about the future employer...
 
It is valuable as total time if you are currently limited in that regard. It is also valuable if there is an upgrade path to the left seat in a reasonable period of time. Beyond that, the value will depend on your future goals.
 
Quick question. Does their Opspec have to state that they can use an autopilot in liue of an SIC, or does having the autopilot automatically negate the need for an SIC in the eyes of the FAA?
 
JordanD said:
Quick question. Does their Opspec have to state that they can use an autopilot in liue of an SIC, or does having the autopilot automatically negate the need for an SIC in the eyes of the FAA?
Click to expand...
I seem to think/remember that 121 requires two pilots period. I'd have to read up on 135 "autopilot in lieu of second in command."
 
JordanD said:
Quick question. Does their Opspec have to state that they can use an autopilot in liue of an SIC, or does having the autopilot automatically negate the need for an SIC in the eyes of the FAA?
Click to expand...

I think you're combining unrelated issues.

Using an autopilot in lieu of a second pilot is an issue that relates to operation of the AIRCRAFT, and how it is certified. You see this with single pilot certified citations.

Ops specs requiring two pilots is a relates to execution of the OPERATION, and has nothing to do with what aircraft you're using.
 
jtrain609 said:
I think you're combining unrelated issues.

Using an autopilot in lieu of a second pilot is an issue that relates to operation of the AIRCRAFT, and how it is certified. You see this with single pilot certified citations.

Ops specs requiring two pilots is a relates to execution of the OPERATION, and has nothing to do with what aircraft you're using.
Click to expand...
jtrain609 said:
I think you're combining unrelated issues.

Using an autopilot in lieu of a second pilot is an issue that relates to operation of the AIRCRAFT, and how it is certified. You see this with single pilot certified citations.

Ops specs requiring two pilots is a relates to execution of the OPERATION, and has nothing to do with what aircraft you're using.
Click to expand...
I thought 135 pax ops required an SIC regardless of type if there's no autopilot. I'll have to look again though, I try not to clog too much of my brain with that stuff.
 
JordanD said:
I thought 135 pax ops required an SIC regardless of type if there's no autopilot. I'll have to look again though, I try not to clog too much of my brain with that stuff.
Click to expand...

You are correct. It seems like this question is asked about once a day on various forums, and it seems that it is usually answered incorrectly or at least incompletely. There is no OpSpec requiring two pilots for 135 IFR passenger carrying ops. The 135.101 already requires it. The OpSpec concerning autopilot use is there to allow you to deviate from that requirement if you choose to do so.


§ 135.101 Second in command required under IFR.

Except as provided in §135.105, no person may operate an aircraft carrying passengers under IFR unless there is a second in command in the aircraft.

[Doc. No. 28743, 62 FR 42374, Aug. 6, 1997]

§ 135.105 Exception to second in command requirement: Approval for use of autopilot system.

(a) Except as provided in §§135.99 and 135.111, unless two pilots are required by this chapter for operations under VFR, a person may operate an aircraft without a second in command, if it is equipped with an operative approved autopilot system and the use of that system is authorized by appropriate operations specifications. No certificate holder may use any person, nor may any person serve, as a pilot in command under this section of an aircraft operated in a commuter operation, as defined in part 119 of this chapter unless that person has at least 100 hours pilot in command flight time in the make and model of aircraft to be flown and has met all other applicable requirements of this part.

(b) The certificate holder may apply for an amendment of its operations specifications to authorize the use of an autopilot system in place of a second in command.

(c) The Administrator issues an amendment to the operations specifications authorizing the use of an autopilot system, in place of a second in command, if—

(1) The autopilot is capable of operating the aircraft controls to maintain flight and maneuver it about the three axes; and

(2) The certificate holder shows, to the satisfaction of the Administrator, that operations using the autopilot system can be conducted safely and in compliance with this part.

The amendment contains any conditions or limitations on the use of the autopilot system that the Administrator determines are needed in the interest of safety.

[Doc. No. 16097, 43 FR 46783, Oct. 10, 1978, as amended by Amdt. 135–3, 45 FR 7542, Feb. 4, 1980; Amdt. 135–58, 60 FR 65939, Dec. 20, 1995]
 
So basically places like Seaport don't allow the autopilot exemption (even if they have one) and they need SICs?
 
If you intend to always operate as a 2 pilot crew, then you would not apply for the deviation. It does not spell it out in that reg, but the PIC, flying under a certificate with approval to use the autopilot in lieu of the SIC, has to demonstrate the use of the autopilot annually. This essentially adds one approach to your check ride, but if you multiply that approach by all of the PICs, then that is wasted money to have a deviation that you don't need.
 
skydisaster said:
If you intend to always operate as a 2 pilot crew, then you would not apply for the deviation. It does not spell it out in that reg, but the PIC, flying under a certificate with approval to use the autopilot in lieu of the SIC, has to demonstrate the use of the autopilot annually. This essentially adds one approach to your check ride, but if you multiply that approach by all of the PICs, then that is wasted money to have a deviation that you don't need.
Click to expand...
Probably has obvious attendant consequences if the autoflight system is MEL'd, too.
 
SIC PC12 time = Total time... It's a stepping stone.

JordanD said:
So basically places like Seaport don't allow the autopilot exemption (even if they have one) and they need SICs?
Click to expand...

Seaport has the Opspect allowing them to use an autopilot in lieu of an SIC. If there isn't an SIC available, or they get sick or whatever it may be, they may fly single pilot. They chose to use SICs even though they have the opspec allowing them to go single pilot. With an SIC, there are different rest rules and they are able to have more um, crappy schedules.
 
juxtapilot said:
SIC PC12 time = Total time... It's a stepping stone.



Seaport has the Opspect allowing them to use an autopilot in lieu of an SIC. If there isn't an SIC available, or they get sick or whatever it may be, they may fly single pilot. They chose to use SICs even though they have the opspec allowing them to go single pilot. With an SIC, there are different rest rules and they are able to have more um, crappy schedules.
Click to expand...
Hm, so if they have the exemption how does the SIC legally log time? Jordan confused. Or are you saying the use of an SIC is also legit if they operate under the different rest rules?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top