Is it wrong to go to the limits of a rule?

PhilosopherPilot

PhilosopherPilot

Well-Known Member
There's a pretty robust debate going on over at BluePilots.com about whether it's "wrong" to pick up a trip from open time then immediately put it up on the trade board.

There are no rules against it, but some feel that it's "screwing" other pilots because the guy that picked it up has no intention of flying it. He's just trying to pad his credit. Someone else could've picked it up and flown it, but since he got it first, they can't.

The one side argues that he knows he's being an ass, so it's wrong and he shouldn't do it. The other side argues that it's legal and while it may be crappy, there's no reason to get up in arms about it. (This guy got his name plastered all over the site to shame him.)

Anyway, what say you?
 
How does that result in extra pay. You'd have to explain it before I could answer either way. On the surface it sounds like a dick move though.
 
wheelsup said:
How does that result in extra pay. You'd have to explain it before I could answer either way. On the surface it sounds like a dick move though.
Click to expand...

Well if he drops it he can drop it paid from his PTO. And it gives him the ability to swap trips with someone else to better his schedule.

I'm leaning towards the side that says if you pick up a trip it's yours to do what you want with it. Since it's first come, first serve, everyone has the ability to do what they like.

We have Flica "Cartels" that all pick up things for each other. That IS a dick move, and against the rules.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
I'm neutral on the main topic, what's the last part about, flica cartels?
Click to expand...

There are groups of people who all have Flica alerts and sit around in crash pads scarfing up literally ALL of the open time. If they want the trip, they keep it. But if they don't they all up the other members of the cartel and see if they want it. If they do, they set up a swap. If nobody wants it they put it on the trade board or PTO it. If they can't get rid of it they normally just call in sick for it, and it goes to a reserve.

The cartels generate a lot of hatred, and for good reason. It's against the rules to have other peoples Flica logins, but they do that too sometimes.

I think people are upset about the main topic above because it is similar to cartel behavior, but as long as it isn't there's no real proem with it, I think.
 
Last edited:
Sounds fine to me, the trips are there for anybody to pick up on a fcfs basis. Who cares what the person's reasoning is to pick it up?

At SkyWest, it's actually the company that hogs all the open time. They hide trips they know they'll have reserve coverage to fly so they don't have to pay anybody else to do it. Or in the case of SFO, they just don't let people bid on half the trips, then put half the base on reserve.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
That's crappy
Click to expand...
It is. In my view it's actually counter productive, because it keeps people who want to work from working more.

The phenomenon above was not limited to SFO this summer--it affected PSP, FAT and LAX to varying degrees as well. (I collected 86 hours of pay to fly 10 hours the two months I was on reserve...)
 
At US there has been a "bid sheet" since my hire date in 1986. The bid sheet is a method of allocating open time. Pilots can find out what is open and bid for it by seniority. However once you bid and are awarded the trip you own it.

Pilots can trip trade from their blocks but not from the "bid sheet". If you don't want to fly it don't bid it. It is a seniority based system with a closed window at a particular time of day. Once the bid sheet is cleared there is no more open time bidding and what is left is assigned to reserves.
 
Like it or not, most pilots will do what's best for them. The "what's right" dilemma is just the perspective of the pilot making the judgment. The pilot "padding" his schedule could be thinking he is serving his family well by having a little extra grocery money. One can drive themselves crazy thinking about stuff like this but it won't change. If one pilot does the morally right thing as some see it, there will be someone right behind him to grab the trip. Changing the policy is the only way to abate this behavior. It may not be right, but it is what it is. Human behavior is mostly self serving and unfortunately, it's not likely to change anytime soon.
 
Xcaliber said:
Sounds fine to me, the trips are there for anybody to pick up on a fcfs basis. Who cares what the person's reasoning is to pick it up?

At SkyWest, it's actually the company that hogs all the open time. They hide trips they know they'll have reserve coverage to fly so they don't have to pay anybody else to do it. Or in the case of SFO, they just don't let people bid on half the trips, then put half the base on reserve.
Click to expand...

Envoy does this. Usually 1/3 or more of the base is RSV and they have all kinds of hidden trips.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
There's a pretty robust debate going on over at BluePilots.com about whether it's "wrong" to pick up a trip from open time then immediately put it up on the trade board.

There are no rules against it, but some feel that it's "screwing" other pilots because the guy that picked it up has no intention of flying it. He's just trying to pad his credit. Someone else could've picked it up and flown it, but since he got it first, they can't.

The one side argues that he knows he's being an ass, so it's wrong and he shouldn't do it. The other side argues that it's legal and while it may be crappy, there's no reason to get up in arms about it. (This guy got his name plastered all over the site to shame him.)

Anyway, what say you?
Click to expand...

Eh, it's legal. You never know why he got it or why he wants rid of it.

I've thrown in some generic "open time requests", got something unsavory and immediately put in a drop request for the trip.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top