Is it true?

Cptnchia said:
Had that exact thing happen at ASA. FA was late, captain wanted to leave. Problem was, it was a :20 minute van ride to airport, so, if we left the FA, it would be an hour before she got to the airport.
Click to expand...

Seriously! For some reason, there are a lot of people out there who like the idea of punishing other people - I know I've fallen into that trap before, but I'm ashamed of it the older I get. A little compassion goes a long way in life, wait the extra 5 minutes - yeah, the people who were late were unprofessional, but that doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it.
 
Derg said:
If I gotta call you once, that's cool, but if you're making a repetitive habit of showing up a few minutes late, you know damned well that's not acceptable. :)
Click to expand...

I once set the wrong alarm on my phone and it went off when the van was supposed to be leaving. Called the front desk, "Hey I overslept and I'll be down in 5 minutes" Only time in 8 months I haven't been there 5-10 minutes early.

I've had to knock on the FA's doors a couple of times due to legitimate oversights on their part. They were professionals who made honest mistakes (forgot to reset their watch to new time zone, ect). OTOH, if it happened every morning of a trip, I would have a word with them.
 
USMCmech said:
I once set the wrong alarm on my phone and it went off when the van was supposed to be leaving. Called the front desk, "Hey I overslept and I'll be down in 5 minutes" Only time in 8 months I haven't been there 5-10 minutes early.

I've had to knock on the FA's doors a couple of times due to legitimate oversights on their part. They were professionals who made honest mistakes (forgot to reset their watch to new time zone, ect). OTOH, if it happened every morning of a trip, I would have a word with them.
Click to expand...

I set my alarm on the iPhone and for reasons I still can't quite understand the alarm was going but there was no sound. I had just happened to wake up 10 minutes before show call the other crew member and apologize and still make it down 10 minutes late max. Now I set a minimum of 3 alarms on the iPhone. It has been one of the few times I've been late.
 
ppragman said:
Seriously! For some reason, there are a lot of people out there who like the idea of punishing other people - I know I've fallen into that trap before, but I'm ashamed of it the older I get. A little compassion goes a long way in life, wait the extra 5 minutes - yeah, the people who were late were unprofessional, but that doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it.
Click to expand...
My previous ex was a flight attendant at my previous airline, she was late for the van one morning, and her crew once did exactly that. They called from the van as they pulled away.

For what purpose, I am unsure. On a 37/44/50, there's no point in doing anything without the flight attendant; you can go out and fire it up, to be sure, but beyond that, there is no useful revenue-related purpose in you being there at the outstation if you aren't a complete unit. You can - congratulations! - say that you complied with the contract, but Get Real™.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
My previous ex was a flight attendant at my previous airline, she was late for the van one morning, and her crew once did exactly that. They called from the van as they pulled away.

For what purpose, I am unsure. On a 37/44/50, there's no point in doing anything without the flight attendant; you can go out and fire it up, to be sure, but beyond that, there is no useful revenue-related purpose in you being there at the outstation if you aren't a complete unit. You can - congratulations! - say that you complied with the contract, but Get Real™.
Click to expand...

I mean, I get it if you're the guy who is late, every freaking day...but c'mon. I look back on the times where I've been harsh for stuff like being 5 minutes late or whatever, and I'm honestly not exactly proud of it - in fact, I'm embarrassed. See that's the thing, at the end of my life, I want to be an old man and look back at who I was, how I acted and be proud of how I conducted myself and what I accomplished - that means not being an ass about the little stuff - because let's face it, most of this is little stuff. Yeah, it is unprofessional to be late (and if you're habitually late, it's extremely unprofessional) - however if it's not a safety thing, it's not habitual and/or deliberate, and it doesn't screw over the customers, then it's probably not worth getting bent out of shape about. In this job there are so many "safety related" concerns that we should be focused on - this isn't one of them. To be honest, setting the tone of "I will abandon you if you don't meet my professional expectations precisely, regardless of the reason" is starting the day with a breakdown in CRM - mostly because you're too lazy to pick up the phone and check on someone.

I fly EMS, so maybe my perspective on how to work with my crew is a little skewed from that but if they are late, I'm going to be finding out why - not abandoning them. Why? Because they will have my back later when I need it. I mean, that's what crews are supposed to do, protect one another and have each-other's backs.
 
ppragman said:
Seriously! For some reason, there are a lot of people out there who like the idea of punishing other people - I know I've fallen into that trap before, but I'm ashamed of it the older I get. A little compassion goes a long way in life, wait the extra 5 minutes - yeah, the people who were late were unprofessional, but that doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it.
Click to expand...
Not just a dick but even more unprofessional than being late.
 
The ironic thing, is that when the Van or limo drivers are late, not a damned peep about jumping in a cab and "leaving the van behind."

A late limo happens nearly every pairing. A late crewmember? Once every 4-5 months. Even less now that it's just the two of us. (sans FA's)
 
Nark said:
The ironic thing, is that when the Van or limo drivers are late, not a damned peep about jumping in a cab and "leaving the van behind."

A late limo happens nearly every pairing. A late crewmember? Once every 4-5 months. Even less now that it's just the two of us. (sans FA's)
Click to expand...
I cannot like this enough!!

"I think it's time we get a cab."

"I'll call again. They said the van would be here in 10 minutes."

"That was 30 minutes ago..."

Meanwhile the next morning...

You walk off the elevator into the lobby at 5:27 for a 5:30 van and you see said person, that didn't want to take a cab, on the phone at the front desk, obviously calling your room.
 
MQAAord said:
What if the crew member is lying there dead in their room? Seriously, it's happened. The rest of the crew is in a better place to problem solve and deal with the situation if they take the time to call the room, and give the person a few minutes to show up... If no response to a phone call and the person is still not in the lobby, a visit to the room with hotel management is probably called for. Knocking, then forced entry if no response. Then there's a whole lotta phone calls to be made...

Habitual tardiness, not okay. But when the person doesn't show up for van time, and that's not like them... there may be something very wrong. Don't just take off!

I know a TWA sim instructor whose students showed up to the van to the sim in the morning and the instructor was nowhere to be found. Didn't show, didn't answer his room phone, management entry into the room showed the guy hadn't even slept there that night. Turns out the guy had gone for a walk and was in JAIL for solicitation of prostitution. (Charges later dropped because the female undercover agent entrapped him but that's a whole other story.)
Click to expand...

A couple months ago, we were getting in the van and an FA from another airline was there, as it was also her van time. Problem was the rest of her crew wasn't there. The van driver was able to help her out. Her captain had gone to the ER the night before with kidney stones and had only gotten back to the hotel an hour or two before. Crew scheduling or whatever equivalent they have hadn't bothered to call her.
 
skyw82 said:
The Salt Lake training center always reminded me of a cult and the skywest check airmen were always their biggest supporters. They spend two and half weeks going over every bolt of the crj-200 to the point where they REQUIRE you to memorize the engine model number but then at the same time only gave you 2 or 3 sessions in the IPT. I guess learning the serial number of what bolt holds the cf34-8c5b1 engine on the pylon is more important than learning your flows properly.
Click to expand...
The best line I heard in the sim at OO was, "NEVER GO FLIGHT IDLE IN JET POWERED AIRCRAFT". Terminator Taylor. I'm still scratching my head at that one.
 
mrivc211 said:
The best line I heard in the sim at OO was, "NEVER GO FLIGHT IDLE IN JET POWERED AIRCRAFT". Terminator Taylor. I'm still scratching my head at that one.
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of that individual.

But I will say there is a time and a place for that comment... I've seen on several occasions now where new FOs will go flight idle (and leave it there) after calling for Flaps 45 (CRJ). The trend vector shoots down, they get behind, and I have to say something about bringing the power up. They are just not used to how much drag that adds and that you typically need to be bringing the power up while adding the final 30/45 degrees of flaps. So I'm assuming what he said was taken out of context...
 
GypsyPilot said:
I'm not a fan of that individual.

But I will say there is a time and a place for that comment... I've seen on several occasions now where new FOs will go flight idle (and leave it there) after calling for Flaps 45 (CRJ). The trend vector shoots down, they get behind, and I have to say something about bringing the power up. They are just not used to how much drag that adds and that you typically need to be bringing the power up while adding the final 30/45 degrees of flaps. So I'm assuming what he said was taken out of context...
Click to expand...
The amount of drag is pretty crazy, like more drag than all other flap settings and the gear combined.

I do always make sure the throttles (erm... "Thrust levers") are off the stop when I call for 45 at least so I'll get some thrust when I need it. But in the beginning it was indeed incredibly easy to get behind, especially when you're preoccupied with bugging the speed.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
GypsyPilot said:
I'm not a fan of that individual.

But I will say there is a time and a place for that comment... I've seen on several occasions now where new FOs will go flight idle (and leave it there) after calling for Flaps 45 (CRJ). The trend vector shoots down, they get behind, and I have to say something about bringing the power up. They are just not used to how much drag that adds and that you typically need to be bringing the power up while adding the final 30/45 degrees of flaps. So I'm assuming what he said was taken out of context...
Click to expand...
True but I was a 10 year captain at that point with thousands of hours pic in the crj. I was on a descent out of 10,000 for an approach. I could see maybe being close to the ground but at 10,000 feet??? Idk
 
mrivc211 said:
The best line I heard in the sim at OO was, "NEVER GO FLIGHT IDLE IN JET POWERED AIRCRAFT". Terminator Taylor. I'm still scratching my head at that one.
Click to expand...
Uhm, okay then. Don't tell anyone that we do idle on the 175 on the regular. Actually almost all of my terminal area descents are flight idle and a selected speed. I was unaware that there was another accepted way to fly a jet-powered airplane.

(Scotty Martin says... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:)

trafficinsight said:
The amount of drag is pretty crazy, like more drag than all other flap settings and the gear combined.

I do always make sure the throttles (erm... "Thrust levers") are off the stop when I call for 45 at least so I'll get some thrust when I need it. But in the beginning it was indeed incredibly easy to get behind, especially when you're preoccupied with bugging the speed.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I asked, on my CR7 jumpseat ride the other day, if a high sink rate demonstration is part of the sim course ("Let's do flaps 45 and idle and gear and whoooeeee look at that VSI!"). It's not. It would be a good idea to have one. It's nothing to be trifled with.
 
Yea, training is one area that needs some PWA protection. Sometimes departments can become cults of personalities or hidey holes for buddies or "friends of management".

Best thing to have is an objective review system and program managers not afraid to cull the herd when it's clear there is a problem. Having a petty tyrant scream at you in the sim is unacceptable in this day in age.

Unfortunately I've seen other shops go in completely the opposite direction.

Richman
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top