Is it true?

trafficinsight said:
I don't think it's a bad thing to be proud of who/where I am, with the amount of work I've put into it, and have something to point to that reminds me of that occasionally. Apparently for some folks its unhip. To each their own I guess.

I have the maintenance tech's creed on my wall as well. So lame, I know. ;)

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I catch snippets of non-targeted, passive-aggressive Facebook haterade for wearing a sharp doublebreasted coat and my hat. But I know a good percentage of those people would trade spots with me with catlike quickness.
 
Derg said:
I catch snippets of non-targeted, passive-aggressive Facebook haterade for wearing a sharp doublebreasted coat and my hat. But I know a good percentage of those people would trade spots with me with catlike quickness.
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Just waiting for you to slip in the shower... Sir... ;)

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The Salt Lake training center always reminded me of a cult and the skywest check airmen were always their biggest supporters. They spend two and half weeks going over every bolt of the crj-200 to the point where they REQUIRE you to memorize the engine model number but then at the same time only gave you 2 or 3 sessions in the IPT. I guess learning the serial number of what bolt holds the cf34-8c5b1 engine on the pylon is more important than learning your flows properly.
 
skyw82 said:
The Salt Lake training center always reminded me of a cult and the skywest check airmen were always their biggest supporters. They spend two and half weeks going over every bolt of the crj-200 to the point where they REQUIRE you to memorize the engine model number but then at the same time only gave you 2 or 3 sessions in the IPT. I guess learning the serial number of what bolt holds the cf34-8c5b1 engine on the pylon is more important than learning your flows properly.
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Good grief.

I fly a A319 and a A320.

It's got two engines. No clue what type. We've got big ones (a3) and small ones (a1). When you fly a 320 with the small ones, you may have some EGT issues in PHX. That's about all I want (or need) to know.

And an APU. It works or it doesn't and if I need it, generally speaking we're going to be landing pretty soon so I don't give a poop about how many PPH it burns.
 
Derg said:
Good grief.

I fly a A319 and a A320.

It's got two engines. No clue what type. We've got big ones (a3) and small ones (a1). When you fly a 320 with the small ones, you may have some EGT issues in PHX. That's about all I want (or need) to know.

And an APU. It works or it doesn't and if I need it, generally speaking we're going to be landing pretty soon so I don't give a poop about how many PPH it burns.
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3a and 3b engines, different temp limits... Not a huge deal.

I have yet to see a 3a engine in the wild though so I wonder about the value of that. At the end of the day if they want me to memorize it I guess I will ;)

We got 4 sessions in the "matrix". Those who did sims in Salt Lake and I think Atlanta did more than that but I went to cvg and they didn't have it so we did it in the real sim.

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Derg said:
"Back on the bro…"

"Shaddup!"

"Well, back on the bro…"

"Shaddup!"

(Small world bro! :))
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"Back on the Canadair" is met not merely with "shaddup" but "shut the (bleep) up," mostly for the reasons @skyw82 laid out. I neither know nor care how many fan blades we have, although the GE rep's exposition was quite fascinating. The culture on the E-Jet is a lot better than on that other jet, I think.
 
Derg said:
Good grief.

I fly a A319 and a A320.

It's got two engines. No clue what type. We've got big ones (a3) and small ones (a1). When you fly a 320 with the small ones, you may have some EGT issues in PHX. That's about all I want (or need) to know.

And an APU. It works or it doesn't and if I need it, generally speaking we're going to be landing pretty soon so I don't give a poop about how many PPH it burns.
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The way it should be! It is warming my heart to see that places are slowly changing their tune from a "know how to build it" mind set to a "know how to fly it and run the QRH."

All I want to know is what happens when I push this button. MAYBE a little bit of why. What happens when it breaks? Well, the QRH will tell me.
 
I don't understand the "build the plane" mentality in the 2000's.

Uhhh… back on the uhhh…. DAMMIT, no way to avoid saying this, but uhhh back on the 727 as flight engineer, you had to know the systems because you were the grand conductor, of sorts, of all the systems. You need "A" more psi in the "B", well, this system will give you X, this other system will give you Y but at the expense of Z.

But on modern airplanes, all that systems knowledge simply brings a "Ahh, hmm. Interesting". If your high stage bleed doesn't open on Fifi, there's not a damned thing you can do because you're not moving valves, you're electronically requesting one of the 100-ish computers to send an 'open' signal and if it doesn't want to, for whatever the reason, it's not no matter how much systems knowledge you have.

Additionally, so many computers are bussed in weird ways. Lose an LGICU, well you're going to have cargo heat problems on the big bus, which knocks out your crew rest facility and certain bays can't be filled, now you've got a potential weight and balance issue and have to block seats off.

You're going to pull the book out anyway. Pull the book out and send maintenance control a note. No need to start a penis measuring contest with who is the bigger braniac because you're both going to lose.
 
Derg said:
I don't understand the "build the plane" mentality in the 2000's.

Uhhh… back on the uhhh…. DAMMIT, no way to avoid saying this, but uhhh back on the 727 as flight engineer, you had to know the systems because you were the grand conductor, of sorts, of all the systems. You need "A" more psi in the "B", well, this system will give you X, this other system will give you Y but at the expense of Z.

But on modern airplanes, all that systems knowledge simply brings a "Ahh, hmm. Interesting". If your high stage bleed doesn't open on Fifi, there's not a damned thing you can do because you're not moving valves, you're electronically requesting one of the 100-ish computers to send an 'open' signal and if it doesn't want to, for whatever the reason, it's not no matter how much systems knowledge you have.
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Some people do it because it makes them feel more important and smarter. I guess it's like the marine corps thinking, "if it's not painful, you're not learning."

"Look at all this stuff I have to learn, I'm Sooooo responsible and important."
 
skyw82 said:
Some people do it because it makes them feel more important and smarter. I guess it's like the marine corps thinking, "if it's not painful, you're not learning."

"Look at all this stuff I have to learn, I'm Sooooo responsible and important."
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Most of my challenges aren't systems, they're human capital.


Chapter One: "How to lead a crew, empower your team, train your replacement and not be a dick about any of it while maintaining the best pairing of your life".
 
I think another aspect is the airplane business is a slow business when it comes to change. We are very traditional in just about every aspect. I mean look at our uniforms. They haven't changed more than the color since engines only had 4 fan blades. I think the going idea is that if it was good enough for our legendary fore fathers of flight then it should be good enough for us. Never mind the fact that those aviation legends never even heard of a FADEC...
 
As others have mentioned, that silly creed is in a book you get on a 2 day leadership course. I actually enjoyed the course. They tried to really hit home the importance of taking the job seriously and remember that we are flying human beings around. That may sound like a no brainer to realize, but some of these young guys who are barely out of college and think they're all that for being at a regional airline, might need to be reminded of the seriousness of this job.


As far as learning every bolt On the CRJ, that's definitely changed. When I went through back in July, they even told us that they've moved away from that mentality. We still had a lot more to study, memorize and learn than those ERJ guys though! :p
 
skyw82 said:
Some people do it because it makes them feel more important and smarter. I guess it's like the marine corps thinking, "if it's not painful, you're not learning."

"Look at all this stuff I have to learn, I'm Sooooo responsible and important."
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I happen to know what the words "ABC CMD PWR" mean on this airplane, but for the most part, it isn't important.

Except when it was, that one time, but there was nothing to be done about it anyway.

The sheer amount of information we crammed on the Brasilia was warranted. Other than a handful of specific blade angles, that information was all useful. The operational approach, for a modern airplane, is far superior.

Derg said:
Most of my challenges aren't systems, they're human capital.


Chapter One: "How to lead a crew, empower your team, train your replacement and not be a dick about any of it while maintaining the best pairing of your life".
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Mentoring is a huge responsibility in the left seat.
 
M20B_pilot said:
As others have mentioned, that silly creed is in a book you get on a 2 day leadership course. I actually enjoyed the course. They tried to really hit home the importance of taking the job seriously and remember that we are flying human beings around. That may sound like a no brainer to realize, but some of these young guys who are barely out of college and thunk they're all that for being at a regional airline, might need to be reminded seriousness of this job.


As far as learning every bolt On the CRJ, that's definitely changed. When I went through back in July, they even told us that they've moved away from that mentality. We still had a lot more to study, memorize and learn than those ERJ guys though! :p
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Speaking of which, can anyone find me the avatar pic that was on the internet a while ago, it's a young FO sticking out the window of a ERJ145 with two arms up holding out fingers like 'west side' kinda thing.
 
M20B_pilot said:
As others have mentioned, that silly creed is in a book you get on a 2 day leadership course. I actually enjoyed the course. They tried to really hit home the importance of taking the job seriously and remember that we are flying human beings around. That may sound like a no brainer to realize, but some of these young guys who are barely out of college and thunk they're all that for being at a regional airline, might need to be reminded seriousness of this job.
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I actually think we could and should spend at least another day on "soft" topics, and CRM.

As far as learning every bolt On the CRJ, that's definitely changed. When I went through back in July, they even told us that they've moved away from that mentality. We still had a lot more to study, memorize and learn than those ERJ guys though! :p
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I'm not even rightly sure if any of our limitations are memory items, to tell you the truth. There's no bold print in the manual, other than the (procedural) memory items.

There is stuff that you'd damn well better know, though.
 
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