Is communication established?

Fencer

Fencer

Experimentalist
From a recent trip. Me browsing on top of something. I monitor active frequency.


ATC: Traffic at 3000' over X are you on frequency?
Me: Yes Sir
ATC: I have arrival runway XX
Me: In sight

Was communication established here if by the book? There was no N-number mentioned and controller didn't identified himself.
 
I dont think so. My understanding is they need to read back a call sign, until then it's not established.... that's why when flying into a busy Charlie they'll say 'aircraft calling approach standby' instead of 'N12345 standby' in the second communication is established and you can blast on in, but in the first you still have to remain clear.... that's my understanding, could be wrong.
 
rframe said:
I dont think so. My understanding is they need to read back a call sign, until then it's not established.... that's why when flying into a busy Charlie they'll say 'aircraft calling approach standby' instead of 'N12345 standby' in the second communication is established and you can blast on in, but in the first you still have to remain clear.... that's my understanding, could be wrong.
Click to expand...

That's how I understand it too. In my case controller initiated communication. Both sides knew what's going on but what about the tapes? Who is talking to whom? :) As db said they are the only ones on freq so one side could be identified.
 
That's odd they called you. Sounds like they just wanted to give you a casual heads up. Since you were more than likely in class E at the time where communication and participation in radar services isn't mandatory, they cant give you a squawk or vector you. It was probably easier for ATC to attempt advise you so they didn't have to vector the arrival. You said "in sight" so ATC got what they wanted and that was the end of it.
 
Douglas said:
Not by the book, and I wouldn't expect an argument that you "were" to hold up in court.
Click to expand...

I would. Talked to each other? Yes. Separated traffic? Yes. With Mode S, tail # is automated soon anyway. And irrelevant anyway - busy VFR we call out by color and position for brevity all the time.

As long as they don't say "do not enter," it be radio contact. No where does is say radar contact, squawk, tail# , or vectors required in the regs... Just talking (other than in a bravo)
 
Here's an interesting one:

Your Class D airport has a specially-established VFR arrival procedure because it's really really busy. Go to X waypoint, cross and descend to Y altitude while going to Y waypoint, cross and descend to pattern altitude and go to Z waypoint, cross Z waypoint and enter the pattern as instructed by tower. There are four of these depending on which cardinal direction you are flying from (northeast, southeast, southwest, northwest). X waypoint is the "entry" waypoint, Y and Z bring you into the pattern. The boundary of the Delta is between X and Y. During peak hours, tower switches from 1 to a split 2 frequencies, with the smaller parallel on the split frequency and the main parallel on the main frequency.

Now, you just happen to be coming down the arrival between X and Y with communication established on the main frequency, and they switch the freqs and advise you to contact the new controller on the other frequency. There is a delay re-establishing communications, and there are arrivals behind you coming in.

(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.

What do you do?
 
gotWXdagain said:
Here's an interesting one:

There is a delay re-establishing communications, and there are arrivals behind you coming in.

(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.

What do you do?
Click to expand...

You're fine. You got a handoff, nothing more.
 
Our tower has a habit of using only the last three of our tail numbers, even on the initial call up. We've never had it become an issue, but it's a pain to explain 'that's just how it works here' to the new students after they've been told over and over that "you must hear your full tail number before entering the Delta airspace."
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I would. Talked to each other? Yes. Separated traffic? Yes. With Mode S, tail # is automated soon anyway. And irrelevant anyway - busy VFR we call out by color and position for brevity all the time.

As long as they don't say "do not enter," it be radio contact. No where does is say radar contact, squawk, tail# , or vectors required in the regs... Just talking (other than in a bravo)
Click to expand...

Fair point. However, per the AIM (3-2-5.b.3.): "It is important to understand that if the controller responds to the initial radio call without using the aircraft callsign, radio communications have not been established and the pilot may not enter the Class D airspace."
 
IMO, no it wasn't established, but that reminds me... my philosophy on the radio is as follows:

1. Be as brief and by the book for phraseology so as not to tie up the freq unnecessarily
2. Violate #1 and ask for clarification anytime there is doubt as to what ATC wanted or what the state of something was, that way my rear end is covered.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top