Is being a professional pilot really that bad?

CzechAirman said:
I'm not frowning upon them, but the fact is that it is a waste of money to get an aviation specific degree when one is not needed. So what do you know that's "above and beyond"? How to be an aviation nerd?
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Why are you asking me? I don't have an aviation degree. I do know that some people don't have other academic interest and don't want to study a backup degree in something they have no passion for. I don't see anything wrong with that personal choice assuming they fully understand all of their options and how it may or may not effect them down the road.
 
If, in the field of human endeavour, from "agriculture" to "zoology", one cannot find something they're interested in other than "aviation appliance operation", they are a fundamentally broken and flawed human being.
 
Gonzo said:
Yes it matters

You posted this



So it matters if they had some very good inside help. For most people it is not BS that you can't get hired without a degree. My guess is in the next hiring wave we will be looking at less then 1% hired without degrees at the big airlines.
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I never said it would be easy for them without a degree. Most of us have had some type of inside help or other factors that played into the hiring decision.
 
Boris Badenov said:
If, in the field of human endeavour, from "agriculture" to "zoology", one cannot find something they're interested in other than "aviation appliance operation", they are a fundamentally broken and flawed human being.
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It's sad, but you'd be amazed how many pilots out there have no life whatsoever outside of aviation. They are truly pathetic beings as their whole life and identity as a human revolves around them being a pilot.
 
To the OP: I can't imagine doing anything else. I was born for this. I'm lucky in that I'm singe and cool with that long term. Makes things simpler. I've loved flying since I can remember and am very luck to be in a top tier job. Had a medical issue in Aug and am waiting to hear from the feds, yet, cause of my union contract, I continue to draw full pay. Anyone in a top tier job who complains needs too look at the big picture. No job is perfect. Making 100 to 200K plus a year working half the month? Please, where else can you do that? It would be in a job I'm not smart enough to do...that's for sure.

But I don't want to over encourage you. The top tier job are hard to come by and you need luck on your side. I don't care if your ex-space shuttle. You need a lot of luck.

As for the degree argument: I think Czech is UPS, ex DHL/Airborne. There was a time DHL/Airborne was taking warm bodies and you could even say that for UPS (after all, they hired me). When a airline is looking for warm bodies, the degree things isn't that big a deal. But when will the planets align again to allow a non-degree guy into a top tier job? Well, it will happen, I'm sure, but I don't think I'd want to be that guy. I have friends at Alaska and Emirates who are both Capts and never had a degree. The equalizer was years and years of experience. Alaska guy was a Metro checkairman at PennAir and Emirates guy was a Skywest checkairman. So, you are talking literally years of extra experience to bypass the degree. But it happens. The interesting thing to ask Czech is, if he had it to do all over, knowing what he knows now, would he pursue the career without checking that square?

The degree thing is an important square to check. I agree with most that an aviation degree is a waste of time and should be avoided....but it does check the square. For me? I wouldn't think twice about getting a degree if I were to do this all over. I just wouldn't have gone to Riddle...
 
Whatever you do, don't get a degree. Most companies that want to pay you hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to operate giant, complex and expensive pieces of equipment want to make sure that you have the absolute minimum qualifications necessary. Anything more is a waste of time, and HR departments know it!

#OccupyCollege

(Do I really need the sarcasm tag?)
 
You have to consider that most university and academy flight schools are aimed at directing students towards the airlines, and that can be a tough road. I've never aspired to be an airline pilot, so my views may differ from yours. All of my experience is in part 91 and 135 flying and I love it. I don't make a ton of money, but my family and I are very comfortable. I fly old turboprops and don't feel the need to fly anything bigger or faster. I enjoy the type of flying and the schedule. This career is what you make of it. Enjoy it!
 
I got my degree in Human Development. What the frick? At age 18-22 I had no clue what I wanted to do but party, meet chicks and party. I'm at a major now but have no clue if it really was a factor. Getting a degree for me is more of a sense of accomplishment. Good luck kid!
 
DE727UPS said:
To the OP: I can't imagine doing anything else. I was born for this. I'm lucky in that I'm singe and cool with that long term. Makes things simpler. I've loved flying since I can remember and am very luck to be in a top tier job. Had a medical issue in Aug and am waiting to hear from the feds, yet, cause of my union contract, I continue to draw full pay. Anyone in a top tier job who complains needs too look at the big picture. No job is perfect. Making 100 to 200K plus a year working half the month? Please, where else can you do that? It would be in a job I'm not smart enough to do...that's for sure.

But I don't want to over encourage you. The top tier job are hard to come by and you need luck on your side. I don't care if your ex-space shuttle. You need a lot of luck.

As for the degree argument: I think Czech is UPS, ex DHL/Airborne. There was a time DHL/Airborne was taking warm bodies and you could even say that for UPS (after all, they hired me). When a airline is looking for warm bodies, the degree things isn't that big a deal. But when will the planets align again to allow a non-degree guy into a top tier job? Well, it will happen, I'm sure, but I don't think I'd want to be that guy. I have friends at Alaska and Emirates who are both Capts and never had a degree. The equalizer was years and years of experience. Alaska guy was a Metro checkairman at PennAir and Emirates guy was a Skywest checkairman. So, you are talking literally years of extra experience to bypass the degree. But it happens. The interesting thing to ask Czech is, if he had it to do all over, knowing what he knows now, would he pursue the career without checking that square?

The degree thing is an important square to check. I agree with most that an aviation degree is a waste of time and should be avoided....but it does check the square. For me? I wouldn't think twice about getting a degree if I were to do this all over. I just wouldn't have gone to Riddle...
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You are grossly mistaken as to the qualifications needed for ABX back in the day. I'd put anyone of those guys up against any other airline pilot anywhere in regards to instrument hand flying, procedural discipline and overall professionalism. In this case, you don't know what you are talking about.
 
Lacking a degree will make you more competitive to some employers since they know you are less likely to move on.
:tmyk:
 
To the OP:

I read your post and had a flashback of me 4 years ago. I wish I could go back to when I was bitching at everyone on here for doing nothing but being angry and hating life. You can look at my posting history. You will see a big shift after I had been at my airline fora while. I, like a lot of people on here, am a 4yr regional FO who is looking at 2yrs to upgrade if the top blew off the place tomorrow. That is not where I was thinking I would be 4 years ago. Fact is, a lot of us complain because we care so much. I want to make my airline the best there is and when you come to work and are met with nothing but: delayed flights because maint decided to inform dispatch at 7am that 3 airplanes are going to time out on inspections at midnight so they need to be rerouted all over the east coast...broken pos airplanes that should have been fixed days/weeks ago but the MEL says it is good for X amount of days so don't expect them to fix it until the last minute (see previous point)...a full reroute clearance to a prefered ATC route that you have begged your company to change how they file since this route is only flown by us several times a day since the beggining of time...a management that tells you that YOU are too expensive and YOU are the reason that they have not been succesful in any RFP proccess and without concessions on top of previous concessions they will most likely go out of business (ohh yeah, they clear 1.5mil a week in pure after tax profits)...gate agents and passengers hounding you for taking a 10 min meal break when you have already cleared 5 legs and have 2 to go with no time to stop and eat...and to top it all off, you run on time if not early for 3 and a half days and on the last leg you come in for a quick turn to find out you have to swap airplanes to something that is running an hour late (see first point) and you make it all the way back to base and run to catch your commute just to have the agent slam the door IN YOUR FACE 15 prior to departure and you watch your last flight home push off the gate without you on it.

While all of those aren't true every single day of every single trip, my regional buddies on here (with my company or different) will nod their head because they have all done these scenarios more than they care to count.

Now, for the good. I work with the most amazing people anyone could hope for. about 90% of the time I can look forward to having a CA that is totally chill, and we spend most of the 4 day laughing our ass off at the most stupid things you have ever seen or heard. Same goes for the FA's. We have a blast on our overnights...even in ELM while it is snowing and we have an 8 behind the door. You become friends with the strangest people around the airport. I love our guy in DCA that works out in "the world" as a ramper and he looks just like Otto from the simpsons. Guy couldn't be any nicer to us. USUALLY my commuting FA's and pilots go out of their way to accomodate me when I bored dead last to full flight, no overhead bin space, and all my luggage, sweating my ass off in ATL, or from running to the gate in DCA. I get to fly some of the coolest approaches in WX conditions that your instructor now is telling you to stay away from at ALL cost. We do it so much and so well, we usually end of saying...well, this should be interesting (as we are blowing through a small "hole" between two T-Storms) for the hundreth time that week. You get to fly some really cool planes (yes even the CRJ...sluggish piece of...well you get the point). Even though you spend most of your time explaining to people that the reason the flight is cancelled is not because you are not "instrument certified" but more to do with the fact that 1/8sm FG, you couldn't see 5 ft in front of you, much less a runway 1800 ft...every now and again you are able to brighten some kids day by letting him sit in your seat or talking to a "I fly a 172" guy or even helping an old couple get to where they need to go because the gate agent peaced out instead of getting them the wheelchairs you called 400 times for.

Bottom line, this job is a BLAST! I have so much fun every single day when I fly. As I tell everyone, I LOVE flying, love flying these planes, these places etc....I just don't like everything around it (see early points). You will really have fun out flying around the 121 world. With that said, do not think for a second that you will not be one of those people who complain. You will. Everyone does, and that is fine. It is our release. If you do not find some release of this job, you will loose your mind. Some of us choose to do it on a forum, some with people they fly with, and even some with their family. (although I do not recommend that because it will make them miserable) Just get your ratings, apply, come out here and see for yourself. You may love it and stay until you are 65 or leave after a month when you decide it isn't for you. Either is fine and there are people who choose one of those every single day. Good Luck!
 
I'm pretty sure this thread ended last time with the pilots being accused of exaggerating to discourage people from entering the industry, thus creating their own pilot shortage.
I'd like to steer this thread in that direction sooner rather than later.
gollum_20100219_aatheory.jpg

Mine. All Mine.
 
Boris Badenov said:
That's awesome. I think we should start an "accumulated wisdom" thread with this as post #1.
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I usually charge for letting out these little tidbits but I really like the JC group. But seriously, if some kid reads my post one day, misses the hidden sarcasm and takes my advice I might actually feel bad. The college days were the best years of my life, unfortunately I didn't realize it until after it was over.
 
Thanks for not accusing me of not being "in on it" myself. I smiled. And you know, you did it wrong. When I started college (uh, ok, for the second time), I was 23, and I had a solid four years of working in The Real World to inform me. I for damn sure knew that those next four years were going to be the best of my life. And I was right. They were. And how! :D
 
Of the many, many friends I have flying at the airlines. I only have one friend who was hired without a degree to an airline that normally requires one. He had quite a few people on this inside with recommendations and one basically walk in his resume. NETWORKING!!!! ;)
 
To the OP: Glad to hear the negativity is not getting you down. Times are tough now, but really, they always have been. “Is flying professionally just another job?” Yes, it can get repetitive at times by flying to the same airports, completing a pre flight on the same aircraft, or checking the weather every night, etc.. But, I never forget why I do these tasks. I’m concerned with my quality of life and those who care for my safety as well. The moments that only pilots can experience from the flight deck is when this “job” becomes something more. The thrill of flying an instrument approach down to the minimums is a challenge and only a fraction of what a pilot may encounter during his or her career. Weather is expected, fog and thunderstorms are nothing new. However, being able to view a mature thunderstorm in the air from a comfortable distance is absolutely breath taking. Another moment is when your aircraft is just above the cloud layer and the full moon illuminates the entire sky. I always look for that freedom. Shooting stars and even the Northern Lights have shown themselves in my windshield from time to time.

This is why I climb into the seat every night. Sure, I get a sense of pride when the job gets done. But, just maybe I’ll experience something tonight that I have to try explaining to someone the next day. Only, sometimes the words just don't do it.

Ryan
 
Jet said:
I usually charge for letting out these little tidbits but I really like the JC group. But seriously, if some kid reads my post one day, misses the hidden sarcasm and takes my advice I might actually feel bad. The college days were the best years of my life, unfortunately I didn't realize it until after it was over.
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Hummm....that elicits an interesting response. Though Riddle was a waste, I gotta say that it was pretty much up there in the best years of my life category. That might be overstating it a bit. I wish I could go back and do a few things different. But I must say college was great fun and I almost wish I could go back and enjoy those times over. Good times though at the time it seemed like a waste.
 
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