riot shields
Well-Known Member
one of our planes 100 hour is going to be met before a checkride is scheduled. does a checkride constitute as a commercial operation? if not then it can be done.
is a check ride "commercial" operation?
- Thread starter riot shields
- Start date
riot shields
Well-Known Member
makes sense.
thanks
thanks
MusketeerMan
Well-Known Member
Yes...you can use it. The examiner does not log the time. You are just renting the airplane and demonstrating...
tgrayson
New Member
Remember that some AD's require compliance every 100 hours.
Is this plane from a flight school? I think it would be really cheezy for anyone to try and get out of getting the 100 hour done just because it's a "commercial checkride". I would like to hear the argument of a school, again...I'm assuming it's a flight school...., when a DPE would fail the checkride because the 100 hour wasn't completed as schedule and they use the "it's a commercial checkride though". I think by virtue of the operation the 100 hours are meant to be done--but I may be way off base. You may not be using it for flight instruction for the one flight, but the airplane is set up to be used for flight instruction.
But, TGRAYSON made light of the most important thing....depending on the aircarft...i.e, an older C-172, the 100 hour may not be "required", but that is when some AD's get accomplished like the seat tracks. A 100 hour inspection can be done fairly quickly with a couple of mechanics on it, so it's not like the plane would be down for a long time anyhow.
Anyway, that's my input....I'd suggest having the 100 hour done as scheduled.
Pac Man
But, TGRAYSON made light of the most important thing....depending on the aircarft...i.e, an older C-172, the 100 hour may not be "required", but that is when some AD's get accomplished like the seat tracks. A 100 hour inspection can be done fairly quickly with a couple of mechanics on it, so it's not like the plane would be down for a long time anyhow.
Anyway, that's my input....I'd suggest having the 100 hour done as scheduled.
Pac Man
Well just to play devil's advocate, on every checkride I've ever taken (except CFI), the examiner profited pretty nicely to the tune of $300-400...
(although I acknowledge said examiner isn't exercising his commercial/ATP privileges)
It's too early.
~Z
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Just to play the real devil's advocate, I have an awful suggestion. Somebody =please= read the regulation and then answer the question. What does whether a checkride is a "commercial operation" or not have to do with it?
Huh????!!!! You'll have to show me the part of the 100 reg that exempts old aircraft.
CamYZ125
Well-Known Member
I think he's just saying that if the 100 hour is not a required inspection for the aircraft's use, it may still need to have AD's accomplished at that time and can therefore not be overflown.
We had a lady from the local FSDO come to one of our IP meetings at our school to talk a little bit about MX and inspections. She said that how they look at if, even if the flight that takes an a/c over 100 hours (assuming it's not enroute to have the inspection done) is not being operated for hire (instruction, blah blah) they still consider that plane to be used for instruction (since it is the flight school's plane, and that is its primary use), and it still needs the 100 hour and cannot be overflown (unless enroute for inspection).
MusketeerMan
Well-Known Member
But that's not what the regs say....if said airplane at a flight school is sitting at 99 hours, and I want to rent a plane and take it on a 4 hour flight...I can and be completely legal..there's nothing the FAA could do about it to bust me or the school. Once I'm back with the plane and a student wants to use it with an instructor, then the plane is grounded until the inspection. The plane is still open to renters though.
MIDLIFE....I was touching on what TGRAYSON had mentioned about AD's and it's a good point he made. Also, say in scenario outside of a flight school environment when a 100 hour isn't "required", there is still the matter of AD's that shouldn't be overlooked. I simply used the older C-172 as an example, since Cessna products is all I've worked and they have a seat track AD due every 100 hours. It was just an example and the only one I could think of at 0200 in the morning while I was adding to the thread 
Perhaps it had no bearing on this thread...I'll try better next time.
MUSKATEER.... The intended use of flight school airplanes are for flight instruction and in that capacity require 100 hour inspections because they are used for hire. I'm more for the side of it needing to be done because of the "intention" of the business. I think a flight school manager would be out of line to let it go for the one flight instead of bringing it down for a 2 day inspection. Again, I would like to hear the schools argument on explaining why they overflew for that one flight.
Pac Man
Perhaps it had no bearing on this thread...I'll try better next time.MUSKATEER.... The intended use of flight school airplanes are for flight instruction and in that capacity require 100 hour inspections because they are used for hire. I'm more for the side of it needing to be done because of the "intention" of the business. I think a flight school manager would be out of line to let it go for the one flight instead of bringing it down for a 2 day inspection. Again, I would like to hear the schools argument on explaining why they overflew for that one flight.
Pac Man
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
So long as you are in compliance with maintenance and ADs if there is no commercial flight taking place then you can go beyond the 100 hour. "Is a checkride instruction?" That is the question indeed, and it is answered pretty simply. Do you log a checkride as dual received? I never have.
MusketeerMan
Well-Known Member
There really isn't an argument as far as the school goes. It's perfectly legal for someone to rent an airplane and fly it being outside its 100 hour inspection....it's not flight instruction, plain and simple.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I obviously missed that.
Whenever you see a post that suggests you call your local FSDO for an interpretation, remember this post - about yet another local FSDO that doesn't like the rules as they are written and makes up its own.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter if it's considered a "commercial operation" or not. A 100 hour inspection is required in only two situations:
91.409(b)
"...no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received an annual or 100-hour inspection..."
That's it -
(1) paying passengers; or
(2) paid flight instruction where the instructor (at least indirectly, as by being an employee of a flight school) is providing the aircraft.
In the typical checkride there are no paying passengers.
By FAA policy, DPEs are not giving flight instruction during a checkride. Even if they were, except =maybe= in the situation where its a 141 school and the chief pilot is doing the checkride, the DPE isn't providing the airplane.
MusketeerMan
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:
Yep, yep, yep....already read 91.409 and in reality for the original posted question it would be legal by FAR....However, I still stand by the intended purpose of the flight school is to provide flight instruction to the public, so the aircraft are on a 100 hour maintenance inspection cycle. In having worked at a couple of flight schools in the mx department, we don't/didn't differentiate between straight rental time or flight instruction time. The time starts from when the last inspection was accomplished whether it was 100 hours of rental or 100 hours of flight instruction--it didn't matter...the time all counted toward the next 100 hour. We wouldn't let a plane go out beyond the 100 hour mark....regardless of what kind of flight it was. Do any of ya'll use a flight school where there are two separate time columns to determine when the 100 hours are due? I'd venture to say no.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
You're right. As a practical matter, most flight school operations and their maintenance departments will treat the entire fleet as requiring 100 inspections, regardless of what the aircraft is doing on a particular day.
Someone comes in to grab a plane for instruction. If you don't treat the all the same, the chance of making a mistake that is also a regulatory violation increases. Most companies don't want to do that.
But I think the question concerned regulatory requirements, not company policies.