IPC in Twin
- Thread starter roozter9
- Start date
tgrayson
New Member
At present, yes. The forthcoming update to Part 61 may remove that privilege, based on what I saw. I don't know if that was an intentional result or accidental. But here's the present FAA interpretation:
From 8700.1, General Aviation Operations Inspector Handbook
8. REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS. In accordance with § 61.195, flight instructors may not conduct flight instruction in any aircraft for which they do not hold category, class, and type ratings, if appropriate, on the pilot and flight instructor certificates. The phrase “if appropriate” applies equally to and in combination with both certificates when instrument instructor ratings are involved.
A. Single- and/or Multiengine Ratings. According to part 61, flight instructors who hold an "INSTRUMENT—AIRPLANE" rating only on their flight instructor certificate are authorized to give instrument flight instruction in single- and/or multiengine airplanes for instrument certification, provided they hold single- and/or multiengine ratings on their pilot certificate.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
Yeah...what's the latest on the 61 re-write?And it's coming out... next week.
ILS37R
Well-Known Member
And it's coming out... next week.
Sweet, it will be here just in time for us to reference when flying our new training planes. Wahoo!
As to the OP: yes, and log as one normally would a dual-given flight, though the instructor might want to note in the comments that the training was towards an IPC.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
You mean the one that was coming out at the end of the month 2 years ago?
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
...yeah. That one. The one that was "the next big thing" while I was working on my instructor ratings.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
The history is actually kinda interesting.
The language tgrayson quoted is from the defunct FAA Order 8700.1 (General Aviation Operations Inspector's Handbook). That doesn't mean it's not still valid - it is. Order 8700.1 was pulled and replaced with 8900.1 (Flight Standards Information Management System (FSIMS)) about 2 years ago. It contains pretty much the same language:
==============================
Single- and/or Multiengine Ratings. According to part 61, flight instructors who hold an “INSTRUMENT-AIRPLANE” rating only on their flight instructor certificate are authorized to give instrument flight instruction in single- and/or multiengine airplanes for instrument certification, provided they hold single- and/or multiengine ratings on their pilot certificate. FAA Order 8900.1, Vol 5, Chapter 2, Sec 11, Para 5-503(A)
==============================
Now, while all this was going on, there was a dispute brewing between Flight Standards and the FAA counsel's office.
John Lynch's PArt 61 FAQ echoed the 8700.1 language, but didn't quote it.
The Eastern Regional Counsel's office issued a written opinion saying the exact opposite - that to teach anything (including instruments) in an aircraft, the CFI must have the appropriate =aircraft= rating on =both= the pilot and the CFI certificate.
The FAA lawyers went so far as to charge a California CFII with a violation because the CFII, who had a commercial single and multi but only a CFI- ASE and IA, taught instruments in a multi. Those charges were eventually dropped.
I'm thinking that the noises about change are an outgrowth of the dispute between those two positions.
But until a change takes place (assuming it ever does), the rule is pretty simple: So long as the CFI has a commercial certificate with the appropriate aircraft rating, a CFI with only an "instrument airplane" rating, but no "airplane" rating is permitted to provide instrument training in an airplane, so long as he doesn't actually teach the student how to fly the airplane.
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
I was actually referring to the whole part 61 re-write.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
except a sim or FTD. That's exactly the reasoning - not even the "next level" - you need to have an aircraft instructor rating in order to teach in an aircraft.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Sorry, forgot about the sim. Not many of them out there, but I'm sure those with just CFI-Is would be surprised to know that they can only give instruction in a sim.