Ipad and Foreflight

hammerhat said:
IMHO ForeFlight is overrated, just keep your eyes outside and fly the plane.
As for source of aeronautical information with GPS reference in flight I use fltplan.com, can't beat the price.
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While I agree that you can't beat the price of fltplan.com's app, I have yet to figure out how to do direct from this point, rubber band my legs to add waypoints, or download charts that are clear and don't look like bad scans. Mine always end up with dots all over the en routes, and they are hard to read because of it. Foreflight is consistently easy to use.

And Foreflight will download charts in the background.
 
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Dunno, looks pretty clear to me. I have iPad 2 non retina, haven't tried other models. It looks fine on my Android phone too. Here is my screenshot.

ny6azy9u.jpg


To add a waypoint long touch anywhere on the chart and pick from the list of nearby airports, navaids and intersections or just use lat/long coordinates. If you'd rather type the identifier then tap Edit link at the top. I don't know how much easier does it get.

I agree there's no direct to button, you have to be on an active route or add your present position first, that adds one extra tap. Also on my phone copter charts look really small and for some reason they don't zoom in like sectionals, so it's hard to read labels on the 4" screen. It does look better on the iPad though.

Edit: forgot to mention, fltplan.com does download charts in the background, that's been added few months ago.
 
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hook_dupin said:
Questions like "What's the top of that restricted area?" or "What does this symbol on the approach plate mean?" or "Is there a preferred routing?" all drive students back to paper products.
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Not sure what you mean, all of those things are pretty easy to find in foreflight if you know how to use it.

I've been using foreflight almost since it came out and recommend it to everybody I can. It does so much, from planning to enroute that it's indispensable in the cockpit. As a CFI I agree that student pilots should know how to use paper charts, but I also believe in realistic training. What are they going to be using 99% of the time once they finish training? Flying is a technology based profession, pilots have to keep up with technology and should be able to use whatever resources are available. For instance, if I ask a student to plan a diversion to another airport for a sick passenger, they need to be able to use a paper sectional and plotter to find an airport, plot a course to it, and tell me the time fuel and distance. But in the real world wouldn't it be better if they used the iPad to do that 10x faster, as well as check the notams and services available at the chosen destination?

Also I agree, the Jepp app is terrible.
 
hammerhat said:
Dunno, looks pretty clear to me. I have iPad 2 non retina, haven't tried other models. It looks fine on my Android phone too. Here is my screenshot.

ny6azy9u.jpg


To add a waypoint long touch anywhere on the chart and pick from the list of nearby airports, navaids and intersections or just use lat/long coordinates. If you'd rather type the identifier then tap Edit link at the top. I don't know how much easier does it get.

I agree there's no direct to button, you have to be on an active route or add your present position first, that adds one extra tap. Also on my phone copter charts look really small and for some reason they don't zoom in like sectionals, so it's hard to read labels on the 4" screen. It does look better on the iPad though.

Edit: forgot to mention, fltplan.com does download charts in the background, that's been added few months ago.
Click to expand...

Now that you've explained it, I got it to work. Still very clunky compared to Foreflight, and Foreflight has documentation that answered every question I ever had about it. Fltplan.com, I have gone through the documentation, and it's minimal at best. And I've been trying to download in the background today and it's not working. iPad 3
 
msmspilot said:
Now that you've explained it, I got it to work. Still very clunky compared to Foreflight, and Foreflight has documentation that answered every question I ever had about it. Fltplan.com, I have gone through the documentation, and it's minimal at best. And I've been trying to download in the background today and it's not working. iPad 3
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See I didn't even know Fltplan had the documentation ;) It seemed intuitive enough to figure out without any. I think in your case it's negative transfer of knowledge.

Background downloads worked fine on my iPad just this morning. Check if you have the latest version from the Appstore. Mine is 2.4.1 dated Feb 5, 2014.
 
hook_dupin said:
Once I point out some of the holes in Foreflight, my students agree to use the paper charts some. ...I do make it obvious that they'll only be plotting courses or using the scale on the IFR low chart while they're in training.

Questions like "What's the top of that restricted area?" or "What does this symbol on the approach plate mean?" or "Is there a preferred routing?" all drive students back to paper products.
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Top of the restricted? Simple. Hold your finger on the area, and switch the tab to All. Boom. says the altitudes, and who controls it and what times.


What does this symbol mean? Simple, switch to your documents tab, and open the terps you've added

What is the preferred routing? same thing.


I've made 3 videos (they're terrible but they get the point across)

that said, students shouldn't be using foreflight

EDIT:

Video showing how to add different supplementals and whatnot
 
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I figured I'd made enough videos why not add one more
Adding previously cleared routes (needs internet connection)
 
Fly with ForeFlight myself... I agree with everyone that says one should learn without it, but argue that ForeFlight can be used just like paper charts would be. Nothing says all of the flash needs to be turned on or utilized. The compact nature is enough of a reason to use it.

hook_dupin said:
Once I point out some of the holes in Foreflight, my students agree to use the paper charts some. ...I do make it obvious that they'll only be plotting courses or using the scale on the IFR low chart while they're in training.

Questions like "What's the top of that restricted area?" or "What does this symbol on the approach plate mean?" or "Is there a preferred routing?" all drive students back to paper products.
Click to expand...

Curious what "holes" you've found. Since the questions you pose here are all answerable with ForeFlight.

I equate it to the same as the Navy allowing iPads as flight manuals in our aircraft... There are a few people that swear it's not safe because you can't do such and such. In reality, they just don't know, nor want to learn, how to use it properly.
 
hammerhat said:
See I didn't even know Fltplan had the documentation ;) It seemed intuitive enough to figure out without any. I think in your case it's negative transfer of knowledge.

Background downloads worked fine on my iPad just this morning. Check if you have the latest version from the Appstore. Mine is 2.4.1 dated Feb 5, 2014.
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The method is very similar to Foreflight. The reason I didn't figure it out is that you have to put two waypoints in before it shows you anything. In Foreflight, once you select your first waypoint, it has a marker on it.

It turns out that I didn't have the latest version, but I downloaded it since the first of the year. I'll see what happens.

Long story short, even with what I've learned from you, I still think fltplan.com has a clunkier interface, and I haven't been happy trying to use it. I was determined to give it a fair shake and save myself $75 if I could. I'm still giving it a chance, but so far, no bueno.
 
hammerhat said:
See I didn't even know Fltplan had the documentation ;) It seemed intuitive enough to figure out without any. I think in your case it's negative transfer of knowledge.

Background downloads worked fine on my iPad just this morning. Check if you have the latest version from the Appstore. Mine is 2.4.1 dated Feb 5, 2014.
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I still can't get it to let me use a nearby VOR or intersection. It lists the possibility, but then doesn't let me see what options there are. And yes, I'm nerd enough to read documentation on stuff.

I didn't have the current version, and it seems to be working now. I don't know why it didn't update earlier. I had checked for updates. Who know?

The long story short is that I used Foreflight at a previous job. When I got my own iPad, I thought I'd give fltplan.com a good solid go and try to save myself $75. (well, $150, since fltplan.com includes moving map) So far, I haven't been impressed with how it functions, the documentation when I can't figure something out, or the "HUD." The HUD equivalent on Foreflight is customizable, and much more user friendly (in my opinion). I'm going to give it a little longer, because just occasionally, after using something for a while, something clicks and I realize why it's better. So far, the only plus is it's $75 cheaper.
 
MercFE said:
Fly with ForeFlight myself... I agree with everyone that says one should learn without it, but argue that ForeFlight can be used just like paper charts would be. Nothing says all of the flash needs to be turned on or utilized. The compact nature is enough of a reason to use it.



Curious what "holes" you've found. Since the questions you pose here are all answerable with ForeFlight.

I equate it to the same as the Navy allowing iPads as flight manuals in our aircraft... There are a few people that swear it's not safe because you can't do such and such. In reality, they just don't know, nor want to learn, how to use it properly.
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I don't think they're unsafe. In fact, not having to fumble around looking through various charts, plates, and pubs is probably a safety improvement.

It's not that the questions I pose are unanswerable ...it's that student pilots generally can't answer them. After a student gets his ticket, I'm more than happy to trade Foreflight instruction for beer.
 
hook_dupin said:
I don't think they're unsafe. In fact, not having to fumble around looking through various charts, plates, and pubs is probably a safety improvement.

It's not that the questions I pose are unanswerable ...it's that student pilots generally can't answer them. After a student gets his ticket, I'm more than happy to trade Foreflight instruction for beer.
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Ah! Well in that case I commend you! Asking them things they wouldn't otherwise know unless they learned on paper. Very nice!
 
msmspilot said:
I still can't get it to let me use a nearby VOR or intersection.
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It's super easy, just scroll to the navaid or intersection and tap it. It will be added to your current route. You need to have the databases for your area downloaded to your iPad. (Note that you don't need to have the charts downloaded, it uses online charts if you have internet connection, but it doesn't load fixes via online.)

If someone could explain me how to make a screencast video off the iPad I'd show it to you. Until then here's a screenshot

yhe5ynad.jpg


msmspilot said:
I didn't have the current version, and it seems to be working now. I don't know why it didn't update earlier. I had checked for updates. Who know?
Click to expand...

Must be because your AppStore settings didn't have "Automatic downloads" enabled for apps. Obviously it has nothing to do with Foreflight or Fltplan, it's an iPad system setting.

msmspilot said:
The long story short is that I used Foreflight at a previous job. When I got my own iPad, I thought I'd give fltplan.com a good solid go and try to save myself $75. (well, $150, since fltplan.com includes moving map) So far, I haven't been impressed with how it functions, the documentation when I can't figure something out, or the "HUD." The HUD equivalent on Foreflight is customizable, and much more user friendly (in my opinion). I'm going to give it a little longer, because just occasionally, after using something for a while, something clicks and I realize why it's better. So far, the only plus is it's $75 cheaper.
Click to expand...

I used ForeFlight, WingX, and Fltplan extensively and liked them all a lot. Ended up sticking with the Fltplan, not because of price ($150 is less than 0.5h of flight time and tax deductible). But I like how it syncs everything between the iPad, the Android phone, and desktop computer. I plan my flight at the FBO weather station and I get the planned ATC clearance texted to me, the plan is downloaded onto my iPad as well as the phone as a backup. Of course I can use the iPad or phone to plan and file on the road.

ForeFlight does have more bells and whistles, not gonna argue with that. But here's the list of features I found I used 99.5% of the time:

1. Get my GPS position in relation to the object (TFR, class B, etc) on the chart

That's it. Stuff like the HUD is sure great but I use the flight instruments instead. ADS-B is awesome, yet doesn't relieve me from the responsibility to look outside the cockpit. Any time I'm messing with the iPad I'm not looking outside, that's when the tool becomes a distraction.
 
hammerhat said:
It's super easy, just scroll to the navaid or intersection and tap it. It will be added to your current route. You need to have the databases for your area downloaded to your iPad. (Note that you don't need to have the charts downloaded, it uses online charts if you have internet connection, but it doesn't load fixes via online.)

If someone could explain me how to make a screencast video off the iPad I'd show it to you. Until then here's a screenshot

yhe5ynad.jpg




Any time I'm messing with the iPad I'm not looking outside, that's when the tool becomes a distraction.
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I'm not getting a list of VORs or intersections. It has a header that says VOR, but nothing under it. I have the procedures and charts downloaded.

I agree about the heads down stuff.
 
Ok try this. Go to Downloads tab in the left bar, click the "Misc" button and download the "Airports Database". That should fix the VOR issue.
 
Foreflight is much, much better than anything on Android, but I prefer the Android platform. If I were purchasing something JUST to be an EFB for the aircraft, I would go with iPad. With that said, I use an Android tablet.
 
Hola JC... Been lurking around here for a while...

I've been working on my private for awhile, and I've found the iPad and ForeFlight to be invaluable. I agree the old school methods are necessary so you understand the calculations that are automated in FF. But, the reality is that when I start flying on my own, I'll be using FF, any onboard GPS and my eyes to navigate and the older methods will be tools in the bucket for backup or redundancy.

I don't see any reason why one shouldn't use FF during training. I used it extensively for preflight briefings before XC training, and so it was incredibly easy to use once I started XCs.
As long as it's not a distraction or a crutch, then I encourage it. It's worth every penny.
 
I appreciate everyone's replies.

I think the idea of learning on paper is a great idea up until maybe just shy of my CFI stuff. At that point I'm going to reevaluate the usefulness it will bring me in my future employment.
 
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