Introduction and a question or two

Boots2Wings

Just happy to be here.
Hello everybody,
I have been browsing this site for a while now and figured id take the opportunity to emerge from the shadows, and take a more active approach to something I have always dreamed about pursuing. I apologize as it will probably be a long first post, but hey what can you do?

Im currently 23, and have from my earliest memories I have wanted to be a pilot. Specefically a military pilot. But part of what i wanted to do, was serve as a grunt, a lowly private, and work my way up to become an officer and pilot someday. In my humble opinion, it was important to me if I was going to be up top, i needed to know what the bottom was. Well fast forward, and after serving in the army reserves (going on 7 years now)I realize that, frankly I will never fly in uniform. I just was not as good as the minimum they accept (physically at least). I was never a marathon runner or fitness guru, and that was before i blew out my knee. Im still fully fit, and actually just reenlisted while im still deployed (in the middle east for a few more months currently) , so it wont be an issue for my medical certification civilian side. But i realize the only way to fly is go the pure civilian route. So I have been researching months now the best way to do it all. This site has been a true goldmine for that, but i digress.

My love of flight is about the only thing in life i can truly say has never diminished (odd considering i was scared of it as a little kid). No matter where i was or what i was doing, everytime something buzzed overhead i would just watch it and plot my way to the pilots seat one day. The sum total of my true experience u can say, has been an introductory flight. Loved every bit of it from the preflight check, to the radio chatter. I know no matter what i fly, for who, or where, to me it would beat any job I could imagine.
So my questions (to which i will provide my insights thus far to check their validity) are as follows.

Loans:
I am a senior at a 4 year university currently (totally unrelated major) so I certainly plan to finish that upon my return home. This far i have no debt (thank you gi bill and deployment money), but after graduating i will also have student loan repayment from the army (20k). I know that for my ppl thats entirely out of pocket, but does anyone know if sallie may loans or other financing are covered. That way i can cut down on post ppl costs for training and hours (i already have about 150% of estimated ppl costs for my local schools in San Diego saved and put aside).

First jobs:
I have constantly heard pay is horrid starting out, but I'm single with no family to support, so I can live comfortably on like 1800-2200 a month in san diego. So obviously cost of living is high, and i can relocate to pursue better jobs or lower costs. Is it a real possibility, to land a reliable job within say a year of a ppl (assuming I get the required certs) to make ends meat at that standard? No i do not care about the bird Im in or what the actual job is. If it gets me in the sky, ill be like a kid on christmas eve. Oh And yes i LOVE ramen!

To be a true pilot and only fly for work?
How hard is to truely only fly as a job, once again if I can make that 1800-2000 or so i can be set at least for the next several years. I hear often about furloughs and closures, but is there ever job security at a post?

That'll suffice for the interrogation of this online community for the moment. If I kept your attention thus far, thank you. I am sure many more post and questions will follow. Until then I look forward to hearing from you all!
 
Hello everybody,
I have been browsing this site for a while now and figured id take the opportunity to emerge from the shadows, and take a more active approach to something I have always dreamed about pursuing. I apologize as it will probably be a long first post, but hey what can you do?

Im currently 23, and have from my earliest memories I have wanted to be a pilot. Specefically a military pilot. But part of what i wanted to do, was serve as a grunt, a lowly private, and work my way up to become an officer and pilot someday. In my humble opinion, it was important to me if I was going to be up top, i needed to know what the bottom was. Well fast forward, and after serving in the army reserves (going on 7 years now)I realize that, frankly I will never fly in uniform. I just was not as good as the minimum they accept (physically at least). I was never a marathon runner or fitness guru, and that was before i blew out my knee. Im still fully fit, and actually just reenlisted while im still deployed (in the middle east for a few more months currently) , so it wont be an issue for my medical certification civilian side. But i realize the only way to fly is go the pure civilian route. So I have been researching months now the best way to do it all. This site has been a true goldmine for that, but i digress.

My love of flight is about the only thing in life i can truly say has never diminished (odd considering i was scared of it as a little kid). No matter where i was or what i was doing, everytime something buzzed overhead i would just watch it and plot my way to the pilots seat one day. The sum total of my true experience u can say, has been an introductory flight. Loved every bit of it from the preflight check, to the radio chatter. I know no matter what i fly, for who, or where, to me it would beat any job I could imagine.
So my questions (to which i will provide my insights thus far to check their validity) are as follows.

Loans:
I am a senior at a 4 year university currently (totally unrelated major) so I certainly plan to finish that upon my return home. This far i have no debt (thank you gi bill and deployment money), but after graduating i will also have student loan repayment from the army (20k). I know that for my ppl thats entirely out of pocket, but does anyone know if sallie may loans or other financing are covered. That way i can cut down on post ppl costs for training and hours (i already have about 150% of estimated ppl costs for my local schools in San Diego saved and put aside).

First jobs:
I have constantly heard pay is horrid starting out, but I'm single with no family to support, so I can live comfortably on like 1800-2200 a month in san diego. So obviously cost of living is high, and i can relocate to pursue better jobs or lower costs. Is it a real possibility, to land a reliable job within say a year of a ppl (assuming I get the required certs) to make ends meat at that standard? No i do not care about the bird Im in or what the actual job is. If it gets me in the sky, ill be like a kid on christmas eve. Oh And yes i LOVE ramen!

To be a true pilot and only fly for work?
How hard is to truely only fly as a job, once again if I can make that 1800-2000 or so i can be set at least for the next several years. I hear often about furloughs and closures, but is there ever job security at a post?

That'll suffice for the interrogation of this online community for the moment. If I kept your attention thus far, thank you. I am sure many more post and questions will follow. Until then I look forward to hearing from you all!


Welcome and you are correct, this site is a gold mine of valuable, real world information.

What you will hear and no doubt have already read, is do as much as you can debt free. Loans for flying, if you can get them, are typically unsecured, unless through a 4 year university. They carry a high interest rate that in some cases is variable. Bad news all around. You dont want to be making 1800-2k take home, and need to put 1k of it to loan payments.

You have a 4 year degree, use it to find a good paying job to pay as you go. If you are open to travel, and being a pilot you basically need to be, find a cheaper location for the ratings than San Diego. I have to believe that 150% for the PPL would easily cover PPL and IR elsewhere in the country.

I can't answer the time from PPL to paycheck. I stopped after my IR. I still have have the burning desire, but I have other things in my life I love more so I've put it aside. One more reason not to be saddled with debt, there are a number of reasons why you may not be able to turn this pleasure into a career, if you stop flying, for whatever reason, the debt stays.

Best of luck and enjoy the ride!
 
First of all, thank you for your service.

If you can live on 24k you'll have no problem at the bottom end of the profession. If you are willing to move there are pilot mill flight schools where you can make that. Air Survey is an option and entry level 121 is in that ball park. Within a year of PPL? That's a though one. I'd say CFI is possible if getting there is your main focus for a year. It will take longer to have the quals for a regional or 135 freight PIC.

Don't worry about job security at the bottom. Be free to move on a moments notice and look to work your way up the ladder.

Not sure where you are thinking of in SD for PPL but I've always been impressed with the larger flying clubs in the Carlsbad and Montgomery field area. Have been thinking about joining one myself. Good weather and lots of flight training options.
 
Thanks for the replies this far.
I know I am beating a dead horse with alot of these questions, so thanks for sticking along.

As far as the loan option, i know debt is bad, and I guess to refine my question and make it clearer, i was asking specifically about them in relation to veteran benefits, specifically Student Loan Repayment (SLRP). Essentially, say I take a 20k loan for college, after 1 year the government will pay 20k toward that loan. So essentially i am not in debt (or only pay the interest for one year). I have contacted some schools and benefit specialist, and while they say it is possible they dont know it firsthand.

I did plan to go to the schools at Montgomery. I actually attend SDSU so itd be a hop and a skip to the field after classes :) I have been leaning towards Learn2FlySD or ATP (yes i have read alot of info against it but the majority just say the cost is where the issue lies, which truth be told i should be able to cover without much debt if at all), i do definently plan to do the cfi route, at least for a while, because I enjoy teaching and I find I learn a bit more that way myself. Biggest turn on for atp, other the multi engine time, is the "guaranteed cfi job". Its the only place that actually gives a base salary as opposed to others than only pay if you have a student (at least to my understanding).

As far as my service, thanks for your support. Truth be told its my pleasure to wear the uniform, and nice bit about being a reservist is I can both continue to serve and pursue my education/flight career. I do apologize if my replies take a while on here, but I am 7 hours ahead of EST and with the operational environment its a tad difficult to get online. But I will always try to reply to everyone who responds.
 
I am thinking you mean california air national gaurd. For that, because I am currently in the army reserves ( e5 and just reenlisted) i cannot transfer branch of services. Also as far as wo or commissioning, while it is possible I cannot qualify for a flight commission. I have a p2 profile for my left leg. Blew it out and had surgery. I walk for my pt test, but still can run (8 minute mile pace generally). To be competitive for those slots you pretty much have to max out the normal pt scales (at least as far as the army goes). I plan on becoming an officer, just not really realistic to shoot for flight in the services.

I have not yet looked into those clubs (did know of some navy ones in coronado). But from my understanding the majority do not really train for flying careers, rather a leisure activity. But i will look into then both further.
 
You're 23 and have served in the Guard for nearly 7-years now? Were you a drummer boy or something? :)

PS - welcome to the site.
 
I joined the army at 17 with a waiver from my parents. Went to basic training june 2008. So i guess to be more precise 6 years and about 5 months. Was just simpler to say almost 7 haha. Drummer boy not so much, just another POG :)

And RESERVES not guard! Its not that big a deal, i just like to be a jerk about it hehe.
Transitioning from reserves to guard used to be much simpler. Especially if you went to sf or combat arms. While i can get a waiver to become a warrant or commissioned, they cannot waiver a p2 for flight. Id have to go to a med board to get it removed, but even then I'm not competitive for a flight slot. I score about 220-240 on my pt test, the average pilot candidate is minimum 270. With the majority 300+. Other then that my apititude scores and ncoer/school evals are very decent.
 
"Biggest turn on for atp, other the multi engine time, is the "guaranteed cfi job"

Be wary of "guaranteed" anything in this business. If you go back far enough in the ATP threads you'll find CFI's working the call center and some guys didn't get the "guaranteed" job. There is always a catch if they don't need CFI's or if they don't like you. Be wary of marketing ploys.

"the majority do not really train for flying careers, rather a leisure activity."

Many of us learned to fly at little hole in the wall flight schools. I don't believe it's necessary to find a "career focus" place to train at. It's just you, the plane, and a CFI. If you want to fly every day then fly every day. Any large flying club will have a good range of aircraft and CFI to choose from. The military clubs are a great deal. Check out March: http://www.marchfss.com/recreation/aero-club/aircraft-rates You can't beat those rates and you could do your commercial in a flippen T-34. How cool would that be...

Just because you see the word "recreation" doesn't mean you can't get professional training to will enhance your career goals. Like I said, I learned to fly at a school with 2 152's, two 172's, a 172RG, and a 182RG. All ratings through CFI at that school. Had to go elsewhere for Multi rating. No big deal.
 
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I knew id regret the guaranteed statement haha. But thank you for reminding me, I had read that before, just kinda needed it directed towards me for it to sink in. My biggest fear truely is getting to say the cfi stage, and not being able to find any sort of position to make a liveable wage while flying a fair amount.

As far as the clubs go, part of my biggest issue (to which ill dig deeper into tomorrow) is just what exactly is required for each rating, which ones I will need/want career wise, and where/from whom i can be instructed. The reason i feel the lean towards "pilot mills" ,as I hear them referred, is that they seem to make it simpler, albeit at cost. But I know the first place i dig into tomorrow will be that link. Thank you very much, and yes....that would be sweet in a t-34...>.>.

I guess as far as my ultimate goals for progression are

1) acquiring the correct certs to actually begin truly getting my foot into the flying for work thing.

2) truly learning the skills ( mastering i feel might be a bit cocky) and building experience, not just check the box "heres your cert" thing.

3) cost of the programs

4) location of the courses. Id rather not have to bounce between different schools for every single cert. (unless of course it offers big advantages to items 1-3).

Maybe ill attempt to make a sorta, pre-flight , flight school checklist/compare and contrast. ;) anything you guys thing should be on there, please let me know. It will give me something to kill time with over here.

Thanks a bunch. Beers on me if yall wanna fly into SD in a few months!

Edited for accuracy. ***
 
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