Insurance & Endorsements

[flyingbum]

A couple questions to my fellow brethren...

1. How would you sign a students logbook while you only possess a temporary CFI cert?

Would it be my pilot cert #, exp. date and signature? (I'm pretty sure this is correct)

2. If I have a student that has their own plane and I want to instruct them do I just need CFI insurance to cover myself.

Or will their insurance require me to be covered under their policy. (I think this is the case)

And.... What if they don't have insurance at all? "This is not a good idea" comes to mind...

Thanks all for some useful input.... I'm not that familiar with the insurance side of things.

 

[rframe]

Make sure their insurance covers the owner getting instruction from you as that's considered a commercial activity and could be a reason to deny a claim right from the start as it's often not covered on a basic policy.

If you'll be operating the aircraft make sure you are a named insured on the policy or again they might flat out deny any claim because it was being operated by someone not covered.

Finally, have their insurance company write a waiver of subrogation for you specifically. This means that the insurance will not come after you to recoup expenses if they do pay out a claim. Without this the insurance might pay the aircraft owner for a claim but come after you in turn.

 

[Houston]

A couple questions to my fellow brethren...

1. How would you sign a students logbook while you only possess a temporary CFI cert?

Would it be my pilot cert #, exp. date and signature? (I'm pretty sure this is correct).

There is no real hard and fast rule on the subject of what to use for a CFI certificate number when you have a temporary with PENDING on it. I've seen instructors use "PENDING". My recommendation would be to use your current certificate number followed by the letters CFI. The only exception is if your certificate number is / was your social security number, then I would use PENDING rather than write my social security number as part of an endorsement.

If you do have a pilot certificate with a social security number as your certificate number, I'd recommend requesting a new certificate with a seven digit number. There is no charge for the new certificate under that circumstance.

The expiration date on your flight instructor certificate will be the last day of the 24th month from the day it was issued. As an example, if your temporary has an issue date of May 15, 2012, your CFI expiration date will be May 31, 2014. However, your temporary flight instructor certificate SHOULD have a line on it that says VALID ONLY WHEN ACCOMPANIED BY PILOT CERTIFICATE NO. xxxxxxx. EXPIRES DD Month YYYY. If it doesn't, your examiner made an error when he or she issued the temporary.

 

[flyingbum]

Make sure their insurance covers the owner getting instruction from you as that's considered a commercial activity and could be a reason to deny a claim right from the start as it's often not covered on a basic policy.

If you'll be operating the aircraft make sure you are a named insured on the policy or again they might flat out deny any claim because it was being operated by someone not covered.

Finally, have their insurance company write a waiver of subrogation for you specifically. This means that the insurance will not come after you to recoup expenses if they do pay out a claim. Without this the insurance might pay the aircraft owner for a claim but come after you in turn.

Hi rframe... Just out of curiosity is it a standard practice to ask for a "waiver of subrogation"? Thanks for the help I'm new to this stuff.

 

[flyingbum]

There is no real hard and fast rule on the subject of what to use for a CFI certificate number when you have a temporary with PENDING on it. I've seen instructors use "PENDING". My recommendation would be to use your current certificate number followed by the letters CFI. The only exception is if your certificate number is / was your social security number, then I would use PENDING rather than write my social security number as part of an endorsement.

If you do have a pilot certificate with a social security number as your certificate number, I'd recommend requesting a new certificate with a seven digit number. There is no charge for the new certificate under that circumstance.

The expiration date on your flight instructor certificate will be the last day of the 24th month from the day it was issued. As an example, if your temporary has an issue date of May 15, 2012, your CFI expiration date will be May 31, 2014. However, your temporary flight instructor certificate SHOULD have a line on it that says VALID ONLY WHEN ACCOMPANIED BY PILOT CERTIFICATE NO. xxxxxxx. EXPIRES DD Month YYYY. If it doesn't, your examiner made an error when he or she issued the temporary.

Hi Houston, Thanks for the reply... The reason I asked about this is because I ran into a funny situation with my temporary cert. When I did IACRA for an addon CFI IACRA showed "pending". But when the examiner and I were doing paperwork it showed "999999999CFI". 9 - 9's followed by CFI. The examiner said he had never seen that but it probably meant there was a number already reserved for my CFI cert. Since I only had a temp from my Initial.

Any thoughts or Ideas? Thanks for the help

EDIT: ohh... I did click "do not use" for my SS # and my pilot cert is a 7 digit #

 

[Houston]

Hi Houston, Thanks for the reply... The reason I asked about this is because I ran into a funny situation with my temporary cert. When I did IACRA for an addon CFI IACRA showed "pending". But when the examiner and I were doing paperwork it showed "999999999CFI". 9 - 9's followed by CFI. The examiner said he had never seen that but it probably meant there was a number already reserved for my CFI cert. Since I only had a temp from my Initial.

Any thoughts or Ideas? Thanks for the help

EDIT: ohh... I did click "do not use" for my SS # and my pilot cert is a 7 digit #

Basically, I'm with your examiner on that one. I haven't seen that either.

Although it all looks automatic, every certificate still has to pass through the Airman Certification Branch in Oklahoma City and be checked, processed, and approved by a human. I've seen several certificates that were "kicked back" for correction that were done through IACRA. Typically those are the ones that that have something very unique. So, I'll be the first to admit I don't know why they put 9999999CFI in one place and PENDING in another. However, I wouldn't hesitate to use your current seven digit pilot certificate number followed by CFI. On the very rare chance that someone questions it, the fact that certificate number points back to you shows your intent to be identified with the endorsement. It isn't as if you were being evasive.

However, it's good to have a warm fuzzy feeling, so here are two things you could do:

(1) Call your local FSDO. Ask to speak to a "general aviation operations inspector". If your examiner was an FAA inspector, ask to speak to him (or her). Present your situation, tell him you think you should use your pilot certificate number followed by CFI and ask if he agrees. Assuming he does, jot his name down. Then, if something ever asks why you did it that way you can say "I talked to Inspector XYZ at the ABC FSDO and he agreed that was the way to do it".

(2) Call the Airman Certification Branch in OKC and ask if they have or anticipate assigning your CFI number the same as your certificate number. The toll free number for them is 1-866-878-2498. Press 1 for airman certificates and then press 0 to speak to a human.

By the way, congratulations on earning your flight instructor certificate. It is an awesome responsibility and you are now one of the most important people in of aviation safety.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Your certificate number for your CFI is going to be your pilot certificate number followed by CFI. The all 9s is because your certificate hasn't been printed yet. It is unlikely that someone has your number, unless it looks like a SSN and even then they've changed almost all of those.

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