Instrument training in a Arrow

Maximilian_Jenius

Super User
As some or all of you might know I have talked for months bout moving to PHX to continue my flight training.

Well today I was calling around to FBO's and came across Glendale aviation.

They are a cessna pilot center and rent C-172's and own a Piper Arrow.

Both rent for $105 an hour.

I spoke with the Cheif pilot and he said that the Arrow is available for Instrument training with the proper endorsements.

So with the resent thread on here bout the Piper Arrow I thought I'd ask everyone on here if it'd be a good choice to switch from only having flown 172's to the Arrow for my Instrument rating.

Or should I wait to fly a complex aircraft until my commericial rating.

On the plus side (duh) it's an Arrow it's a complex aircraft a totally new flying experience vs. the 172SP.

Also the chief flight instructor said that both insurance companies and future employers smile on a person with lots of complex time.

My concern is that maybe that airplane might be too much for me to handle for IR training as it is a complex so one would have more items on a checklist to deal with verses someone training on a 172.

So hey let me know the pro's and cons.


Matthew
 

SUSPilot

Well-Known Member
I did my instrument training in an Arrow. When my family bought the plane I only had around 70hrs total time, and our insurance company required that I had 25hrs dual in the airplane before I could fly it by myself. I used this as the perfect time to start instrument training. It is a very stable IFR platform, but it will take more planning of power settings to set up for approaches than the 172, since you will have to slow the plane down considerably more than you would in a 172. An interesting side note is that I took my instrument checkride in a 172SP, because our plane was in the shop for about a month and a half when I was finally ready for my checkride, and in the lesson before the ride and in the actual checkride, I was actually having a little trouble because it felt like everything was happening too slow.
 

SUSPilot

Well-Known Member
With regards to it being too much to handle, once you get some complex time and you are comfortable in the plane, the only real difference is a switch for the gear and a lever for the prop, it does not really make the process of flying any more difficult, especially in the complex trainers which do not require as much speed and descent planning as a high performance complex single or a twin.
 

RiddlePilot

New Member
Pipers in general are killer IFR aircraft. They're trucks. As SUSPilot said, extremely stable. I'd definitely do at least a portion of your instrument in a complex aircraft...it's just good experience!
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
My instrument student right now is flying the Arrow. He transitioned from the 172 to it about 1/4 through his inst. training. He's doing fine. If they're the same price, I'd recommend flying the Arrow. It may take a few more hours because of the transition, but they're more valuable. Good luck!
 

sbe

Well-Known Member
I'd go for the Arrow - you'll be that much further ahead of the game. I did my IFR in an Archer, loved it - as soon as I finished my CFI started getting me checked out in our Arrow and I'm now flying that (ins for our FBO is minimum 100TT and 10 dual or if you have 50 retract just a normal aircraft checkout). I'm flying the Arrow exclusively right now and am having to adjust my IFR flying due to being so used to that Archer (and 172s). My first approach in the Arrow was an ILS in actual - whoa nelly!
In any event, though, once you get your commercial and flying opportunities present themselves, you'll thank yourself for the extra complex time. Right now I'm scrambling a bit to ramp up my complex time as much as possible in advance of a potential job starting this summer. If I'd done my IR in the Arrow, I'd be sitting rather pretty!

Best of luck.

Sarah
 

Dazzler

Well-Known Member
Reading all of this has made me even more excited to get going and check out in an Arrow, which should be within the next couple of weeks or so.

Got to get the Commercial Written out of the way first though !
 

FL270

New Member
I did my instrument in a Mooney and had no trouble at all ... like any airplane, you need to think ahead. With the cost being the same, go for the Arrow ... Pipers are rock-solid instrument platforms; you should have very little trouble with the transition.

Good luck!

FL270
 

cime_sp

Well-Known Member
Do the Arrow. Reasons:

1. The complex time
2. The price is the same
3. Your first handful of hours in your instrument rating will all be VFR with you under the hood doing compass turns, timed turns, climbs, descents, etc... at altitude.
By the time you get to the apporaches, you will know the Arrow like the back of your hand. It is very forgiving.
 

Maximilian_Jenius

Super User
Thanks for all the great replies. I have heard from alot of people not only on this site that the Arrow is a very forgiving,stable airplane.

Is it really hard to adjust from a high wing airplane to a low wing like the Arrow?

And your right there the same price as a 172 so what is the risk.

I checked out there website and the plane is a 1979 T-tail Arrow.

What is better a T-tail or a regular tail or is it all a matter of opinion?

Also the school has a 2003 182T.....



Matthew
 

RiddlePilot

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Is it really hard to adjust from a high wing airplane to a low wing like the Arrow?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. Actually, landing a low-wing is easier in my opinion. Just point the nose at the runway til you think you're about to hit the nosewheel, bring it just above level, and you're good.


[ QUOTE ]
What is better a T-tail or a regular tail or is it all a matter of opinion?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's really just opinion I think. T-tails are stable as all hell for IFR.
 

sbe

Well-Known Member
Matthew - I'm currently flying a '79 Arrow IV (t tail), love it. Pay the same rate you quoted. It's well equipped (just installed a GNS 430 last summer) and fun to fly.

Now a 2003 182? That'd be one heck of an expensive instrument rating! I'm doing my high performance endorsement & aircraft checkout (wrapped up into my commercial dual night x/c) in a '98 182 next week. The hourly rate? All I can say is OUCH.

Sarah
 

SteveC

Really?
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
Is it really hard to adjust from a high wing airplane to a low wing like the Arrow?
Matthew

[/ QUOTE ]
With a hood on you won't be able to tell the difference....
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
I would consider the 172SP if I were you... the 1979 Arrow probably does not have any kind of GPS, at most it has a wing leveling autopilot.

The 172SP is likely to have a dual axis ap with a KLN 94 GPS and some kind of moving map display.

Even if it's not kept current for approaches you will still be able to learn a lot about the GPS, assuming your CFI knows how it works.
 

Maximilian_Jenius

Super User
Naw gonna stick with the Arrow but the 182T rents for $149 an hour.

Thats not that bad.

But I will get checked out on it just for sh*ts & giggles.

But not for IR training.


Matthew
 

Maximilian_Jenius

Super User
[ QUOTE ]
I would consider the 172SP if I were you... the 1979 Arrow probably does not have any kind of GPS, at most it has a wing leveling autopilot.

The 172SP is likely to have a dual axis ap with a KLN 94 GPS and some kind of moving map display.

Even if it's not kept current for approaches you will still be able to learn a lot about the GPS, assuming your CFI knows how it works.

[/ QUOTE ]

The FBO's website says the 1979 Arrow has:

Dual NAV/COM
ADF
DME
Marker Beacon
Glide Slope
HSI
Intercom
Long Range Fuel
Transponder Encoder
Loran GPS
PTT Switch

Is that good?

Don't see autopilot though.

Matthew
 

sbe

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Naw gonna stick with the Arrow but the 182T rents for $149 an hour.

Thats not that bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

*thunk*

 

RiddlePilot

New Member
Oooh...a PTT switch. High class.


Another reason to stick with an Arrow: you get to do a solid portion of your instrument with an HSI. Flying in actual with a basic CDI sucks.
 
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