Instrument Rating Requirements

stuckingfk

stuckingfk

Well-Known Member
I don't teach pt 61 and am a little rusty. I know you need 50 hours of x-country PIC, but does that have to be solo?

For example, if the student was appropriately rated, could he/she log PIC while flying a country flight with an instructor and have that time count towards the 50 hours PIC x-country?
 
Those hours do not have to be solo, but they do need to be PIC. So whether you take friends along or an instructor, it will be 50 hours you logged while "manipulating the controls, etc" or however that phrase goes flying cross-country.

If you're out flying cross-countries in VFR as a private pilot, I don't think an instructor can log PIC so long as you're the one on the controls unless the student asked the instructor to go along for help with flying cross-countries.
 
The hours just need to be PIC, there's nothing in the regs about VFR or solo. So you could use some of the 50 hours XC to teach IFR cross countries, intercepting and tracking, approaches, etc... The student just needs to be able to legally log PIC in the aircraft.
 
The question that always gets me is "what is the minimum distance to be considered x-c?"

I have heard some DPE's consider anything that is from your home airport to another airport, even is that is only 2NM. And then there are some who say is has to be >50NM.
 
So what do most people here log as x-c time? >50 miles?? Or anything where you go to another airport and make a landing? I've heard the >50 mile rule as well...just curious if there is a FAR that specifically spells it out.
 
I have also heard of a x/c being from one airport to another no matter the distance. 5 miles, 50 miles... Both are x/c. At least this is what was taught by ATP's CFI guru who wrote nearly half the FARs when he worked with the FAA in OKC. I think what gets everybody is for the private they have to be 50 miles so that is the standard people seem to go by. After your ratings I think the only people that care how much x/c time you have are insurance companies? Not too many flying gigs require a set amount of x/c time really.
 
Wouldn't it look a little funny if your x-c time is almost the same as your PIC time from the point you got your license? Maybe it wouldn't just asking what you guys think. It makes sense that a cross country should be a certain distance away...if you're only flying 5 miles away from your home airport then you're not really using x-c skills....it's like driving around your hometown...you don't need maps...you just know where you are going without thinking much about it. Make sense? Clear as mud right.
smile.gif
 
My instructor told me that i have to go at least 50 miles, but I think that is just because I am still working on my PPL. I'm going to believe Timbuff's CFI since he probably knows da rules inside out... Not like I'm only going to fly 5 miles then come back and log it as X-Country time, usually I would want to go at least 50 miles out anyways.
 
I believe the airport to airport XC time is only good for part 135 currency. The XC time you'll need for the IR is >50 miles.
 
FAR 61.1(b)(3)(ii)

3) Cross-country time means—

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(3)(ii) through (b)(3)(vi) of this section, time acquired during flight—

(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;

(B) Conducted in an aircraft;

(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and

(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.


So greater than 50nm from the original point of departure.
 
I have a neighbor who is an instructor at another flight school on the field. He signed off a student who had flown from DAB-X47-TIX for about 35 hours of XC to finish the total of 50 for the IR. He did the same flight over and over not looking to build experience, but he just wanted to get his rating finished.

While he did have over 50nm straight line legs from X47 (Flagler County to the north of DAB for you non-Floridians) to TIX (Titusville Space Coast to the south) he did not have 50nm straight line legs from the point of original departure. He didn't even make it past the logbook review portion of the checkride.

It's been posted at least 3-4 times in this thread already, but if you're logging XC time to count towards the PPL, IR, or CPL it has to be over 50nm straight line distance from the point of original departure.
 
[ QUOTE ]
While he did have over 50nm straight line legs from X47 (Flagler County to the north of DAB for you non-Floridians) to TIX (Titusville Space Coast to the south) he did not have 50nm straight line legs from the point of original departure.

[/ QUOTE ]Just a minor correction to this sentence. I realize from the context and your later comment that you know the rule, but for others:

He did not have 50nm straight line total distance from the point of original departure

You point out an incredibly common error with cross countries. The flight you describe is 19 NM from DAB to X47 and 61 NM from X47 to TIX. But the distance between DAN and TIX is only 42 NM, and that's the number that counts if you want to use the entire flight toward cross country hours for a certificate or rating.

We periodically have a DPE speaking to out instructor groups at our flight schools and this is one of the more common errors that end checkrides very early.
 
I plugged the trip into AOPAs Flight Planner. Total distance is 79.9nm. HOWEVER, the "great circle distance" which is essentially what you're looking to have over 50nm ... distance from orginal departing airport to destination and that measurement was 42.2nm.

The only time he could legally log is that from Flagler to Titusville and back to Flagler.
 
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