Instrument Rating Disappeared?

Boskru

Well-Known Member
So I recently got my ATP MEL and the new card arrived in the mail a few weeks ago. I really hadn't looked at it much as I just put it in my wallet. Today I was at an FBO filling out paperwork so I could rent their 172. The receptionist took my license and then asked me if I had an instrument rating. I told her yes and that it should be on the license. She had me look again and it was not on there.

I am I wrong in thinking that it should be on there? I have one!! The only thing I can think of is that it was removed from my license because of my ATP being added?

Any comments/ideas?!?
 

SteveCostello

My member is well-known.
I would think that since the IR is a prerequisite for an ATP, then it would be redundant. But, what do I know... I have neither. :)
 

Rotor2Wing

Unapologetically American
So I recently got my ATP MEL and the new card arrived in the mail a few weeks ago. I really hadn't looked at it much as I just put it in my wallet. Today I was at an FBO filling out paperwork so I could rent their 172. The receptionist took my license and then asked me if I had an instrument rating. I told her yes and that it should be on the license. She had me look again and it was not on there.

I am I wrong in thinking that it should be on there? I have one!! The only thing I can think of is that it was removed from my license because of my ATP being added?

Any comments/ideas?!?
I think once you earn the ATP in category it supersedes the IR just like it does the commercial.
 

Itchy

Well-Known Member
Assuming you got the ATP in a multi, the commercial will stick around (single). Instrument is no longer there.
 

Hacker15e

Dunning–Kruger Observer
Once you have an ATP, there's no such thing as an instrument rating anymore -- it is incorporated into the ATP by definition.
 

Boskru

Well-Known Member
Awesome!! Thanks for the help. I was assuming that was the case but I thought I would ask to make sure!
 

BajtheJino

I'm looking at you.
So I recently got my ATP MEL
Ok, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning so I'll say it: If you have an ATP seems to me you should have the knowledge to answer your own question or know how to find the answer. The FAA website covers this (yes, I know the FAA website is not easy to navigate).
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
I had someone, I think in an HR dept, ask me if I had my commercial multi because that was required, as they look at my ATP multi. One of those situations where you want to ask them if they are qualified for the job they're doing, but can't.
 

Boskru

Well-Known Member
If you have an ATP seems to me you should have the knowledge to answer your own question or know how to find the answer.
So excuse me for using a CFI/Flight training forum for asking a question to clarify the rules and operations of the FAA. I am not a CFI and so after searching online and not finding a decent answer (until after I asked this question) I resorted to asking people with more experience. If that makes me a bad pilot Baj, then I'll stay that way instead of belittling people to make myself feel better!
 

Blackhawk

Well-Known Member
FAA Order 8900.1, volume 5, section 18 (Conduct an Airline Transport Pilot Certification, Including Additional Category/Class Rating).
5-705 PILOT CERTIFICATE LEVEL AND CATEGORY AND CLASS RATING.

...
B. Type Ratings.

...
2) Instrument rating privileges are shown on the ATP certificate only if the ATP practical test was for visual flight rules (VFR) only, or to retain instrument privileges that were held on the superseded certificate for a category of aircraft other than the one used for the ATP practical test.


http://fsims.faa.gov/PICResults.aspx?mode=EBookContents
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Ok, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning so I'll say it: If you have an ATP seems to me you should have the knowledge to answer your own question or know how to find the answer. The FAA website covers this (yes, I know the FAA website is not easy to navigate).
I think you may have woken up on the wrong side. Since the ATP has category and class ratings it's not especially intuitive that an ATP-multi automatically carries over the instrument-airplane rating for a commercial or private single.

==============================
61.3(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:
(1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift being flown;
(2) An airline transport pilot certificate with the appropriate aircraft category, class, and type rating (if required) for the aircraft being flown;
(3) For a glider, a pilot certificate with a glider category rating and an airplane instrument rating; or
(4) For an airship, a commercial pilot certificate with a lighter-than-air category rating and airship class rating.
==============================

Reg sounds like the instrument rating single might not be assumed with an ATP multi. Since the instrument-airplane rating is only category-specific to begin with, it does, but this is not one of those easy-to-figure questions.
 

rframe

pǝʇɹǝʌuı
Ok, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning so I'll say it: If you have an ATP seems to me you should have the knowledge to answer your own question or know how to find the answer. The FAA website covers this (yes, I know the FAA website is not easy to navigate).
Dont be a prick.
 

BajtheJino

I'm looking at you.
Dont be a prick.
Likewise.
If that makes me a bad pilot Baj,
Never said you were a bad pilot. Just seems to me in the course of preparing yourself for the ATP you would have cracked open the FAR's and done some prep work.

61.167(a):(a) A person who holds an airline transport pilot certificate is entitled to the same privileges as a person who holds a commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=e1573c03392bfb0cff6781cca4cadef7;rgn=div6;view=text;node=14:2.0.1.1.2.7;idno=14;cc=ecfr
 

Blackhawk

Well-Known Member
Likewise.

Never said you were a bad pilot. Just seems to me in the course of preparing yourself for the ATP you would have cracked open the FAR's and done some prep work.
61.167(a)
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=e1573c03392bfb0cff6781cca4cadef7;rgn=div6;view=text;node=14:2.0.1.1.2.7;idno=14;cc=ecfr
Actually, the reference for removing the instrument rating privileges from the certificate is not FAR 61.167, but FAA Order 8900.1. FAR 61.167 is the reference for letting an ATP know that (barring any limitations listed on the certificate), they may exercise commercial instrument privileges.
I would have thought a CFI would crack open the regulations and done some prep work.
 

towpilot2003

Well-Known Member
Ok, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning so I'll say it: If you have an ATP seems to me you should have the knowledge to answer your own question or know how to find the answer. The FAA website covers this (yes, I know the FAA website is not easy to navigate).
Sometimes, professional pilots whom all ready have the rating and don't need to know useless information (brain dumping the B.S. parts), just like to ask gee wiz questions like, "how come I didn't come out of my mothers womb knowing everything like Baj?" Because really, does it matter that much?
 

BajtheJino

I'm looking at you.
Sometimes, professional pilots whom all ready have the rating and don't need to know useless information (brain dumping the B.S. parts), just like to ask gee wiz questions like, "how come I didn't come out of my mothers womb knowing everything like Baj?" Because really, does it matter that much?
Really? Brain dumping? Does that include the inability to pick up a FAR/AIM. Dude, I fly bush and have flushed out more information about the IFR system than I realized and since I realize I don't know everything about my profession I periodically pick up a book or two to stay up on job, whether it be flying 121/135 or bush techniques and equatorial weather patterns. Even reading the same books over and over again I learn something new every time. So maybe save the sarcasm and read what my post was really about. A newly certificated ATP not knowing what an ATP is and what it gives said person the authority to do. The question "what authority does and ATP give to a pilot was the first question on my ride", after "you got cash right?"
So, I have to ask, if you have a question about your profession do you ask someone else, who might not know the answer at all and just give you something that sounds good, or do you perhaps open a book and find out the information for yourself?
If you missed that portion of my post then I am truly sorry. Well, not truly sorry. But disappointed. And I think we, all her at JC, can do without the sarcasm even with that impressive resume you have (whoops, hypocrite alert!)
 
Top