Instrument DP question

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Hey those noise abatement procedures keep Alameda quiet! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif It's funny how they don't want you to fly over Alameda, Bay Farm or San Leandro but Oakland is just fine. Hehe. http://www.flyoakland.com/noise/images/NABweb.gif

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They also mailed him a copy of that noise abaitment brochure. The groundtrack in that brochure doesn't match the groundtrack in the DP.
 
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I'm sure you'd be a big asset for the pilot's side of the issue.
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Heh, don't get the wrong impression. Noise abatement is important, but Scottsdale takes it to the next level. I'd go in there wanting to tell them all to have a big glass of shut-the-hell-up, and move away from the airport. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I'm not the most politically correct person in the bunch. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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I can understand that. Relate to it, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif


There's a difference, though, between not being PC, and not poking the rattler with a stick, eh? Especially when there are others that gotta walk down the path alongside that rattler after you pass by.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Departure Procedures and Noise Abatement Procedures are two completely separate things.

Departure Procedure is for IMC, to keep you away from the cumulo-granite.

Noise Abatement Procedures are typically VMC type procedures to keep the natives at bay.

Was the departure into IMC or VMC?
 
I know that here at TPA, if RWY's 18R&L are in use, aircraft taking off generally IMEDIATELY make steep turns to the right or left to comply with noise abatement rules over the south Tampa Penninsula.... where a great many monied folk live.

But, to repeat everything that's already been said: If the wx was IFR, tough cookies for the good folk of Oakland.

If it was VFR and your buddy was practicing IFR approaches/departures - no reason why he couldn't have complied.

Just my $0.02.

R2F
 
To clarify my post a little more, my opinion is that Noise Abatement Procedures should be followed when conditions allow, i.e. Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC). Even if you are flying under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR), if VMC conditions exist the recommended procedures should be followed (safety of flight factors permitting).

Only when IMC under IFR should you stick to the letter of the DP, thus possibly disregarding the NAP. (Enough acronyms for everyone? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) Besides, if it's IMC they can't see your tail number, anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can understand that. Relate to it, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif


There's a difference, though, between not being PC, and not poking the rattler with a stick, eh? Especially when there are others that gotta walk down the path alongside that rattler after you pass by.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Yeah, I hear ya on that one. I didn't necessarily go out of my way to make noise, but it was a rather funny result of flying the published approach/missed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm mostly exaggerating anyways. They don't have to move away from the airport. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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Only when IMC under IFR should you stick to the letter of the DP, thus possibly disregarding the NAP.

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If you're IFR in VMC, and cleared for the DP, you should still stick to the letter of the DP....it's a clearance! I wouldn't want to deviate from a clearance and deal with the FAA to keep the ground dwellers happy...
 
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Only when IMC under IFR should you stick to the letter of the DP, thus possibly disregarding the NAP.

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If you're IFR in VMC, and cleared for the DP, you should still stick to the letter of the DP....it's a clearance! I wouldn't want to deviate from a clearance and deal with the FAA to keep the ground dwellers happy...

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Yeah, if you're cleared for the DP, you're right. Follow the black lines and instructions. I guess I was thinking of the situations where you're following a DP just for obstacle clearance, not because it was assigned. Not very clear thinking on my part....

Related question; how far does the ground track show him flying straight out before starting the turn? How does this distance compare to the distance one would cover if climbing at the expected climb rate for a DP up to 400'?
 
noise abatement is gay.

What's next, will they start depicting rich communties on the DP and arrival charts? The symbol will be a dollar sign.
 
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I'm sure you'd be a big asset for the pilot's side of the issue.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif

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The pilots side of the house has been getting walked-over as long as there has been noise complaints. And they continue to take is (and by some, are expected to). Pretty soon, you find outlandish noise patterns, airport restrictions, etc..., possibly even airport closure. And then and only then do pilots start to say "we should've done something earlier."

Not likely from here. Too many of these homeowner idiots need to have their stupidity reflected in a mirror held up in front of them.
 
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I'm sure you'd be a big asset for the pilot's side of the issue.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif

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The pilots side of the house has been getting walked-over as long as there has been noise complaints. And they continue to take is (and by some, are expected to). Pretty soon, you find outlandish noise patterns, airport restrictions, etc..., possibly even airport closure. And then and only then do pilots start to say "we should've done something earlier."

Not likely from here. Too many of these homeowner idiots need to have their stupidity reflected in a mirror held up in front of them.

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Agreed that pilots need to be proactive in fighting draconian restrictions, laws, and closures.




Question: Does your post (as a direct quote-response to my comments) mean that you think flaunting existing noise abatement procedures is a viable way to fight them? Or was my post simply a stepping-off point to make your comments? Or.....?
 
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I'm sure you'd be a big asset for the pilot's side of the issue.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif

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The pilots side of the house has been getting walked-over as long as there has been noise complaints. And they continue to take is (and by some, are expected to). Pretty soon, you find outlandish noise patterns, airport restrictions, etc..., possibly even airport closure. And then and only then do pilots start to say "we should've done something earlier."

Not likely from here. Too many of these homeowner idiots need to have their stupidity reflected in a mirror held up in front of them.

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Agreed that pilots need to be proactive in fighting draconian restrictions, laws, and closures.




Question: Does your post (as a direct quote-response to my comments) mean that you think flaunting existing noise abatement procedures is a viable way to fight them? Or was my post simply a stepping-off point to make your comments? Or.....?

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Naw. You post was a good lead-in to mine. Regards flaunting the noise abatement, IMO, that's not wise. Not so much for any sort of legalistic aspect (there really is none), but it doesn't buy any points or otherwise help to garner public support for the pilot's side of the cause. That being said, noise is going to happen...if it's not planes, it'll be something else; and I will not curtail "normal ops" or do anything extremely out of the ordinary just to preserve a few decibles. Procedures say "don't fly south of the runway", fine I won't fly south of the runway (real world...SDL we're talking here). But if I'm flying the VOR A/B IAP into the field, for one thing, I approach from the south, and secondly, if I need to circle south for real-world weather, I will (if no other restrictions). All the public sees, though, is "we were told that no planes are supposed to be flying south of the airport runway, and I saw three of them doing just that!!!!!"; when these idiots don't understand that while there's no VFR pattern south of the airport, the instrument approaches come from the south...no matter how many times these people are informed that they may see planes coming from the south, they choose not to remember it, or are too stupid to remember it. As is, most of the public see GA flying as some sort of "rich man's hobby" that they could care less about, probably out of some sort of jealousy. But that's neither here nor there. When I say pilots should stand up for themselves, I mean by attending these airport noise meetings, making themselves heard, presenting their side of the case (the true logic) to the snooty idiot homeowners and other NIMBYs. Last meeting I went to, there was about 70 people, only 6-7 of which were pilots concerned with the pilot side of the issue. I couldn't believe the amount of rank stupidity I saw in some of these homeowners.....everything from "they pass over my house at 50 feet!" 5 miles from the airport, to "the City Council took a payoff from X subdivision because X subdivision has higher-priced homes than MY subdivision...then the City Council colluded with the FAA to have the flightpath of arriving airliners diverted over my neighborhood because of the kickbacks.....[no kidding on this..this was one homeowner].

And pilots wonder why noise abatement rules continue to get worse? Some of it is their own fault. Not attending these meetings to counter all the idiots that congregate together and pool their idiocy into assumed fact; is one reason we're losing this "war"
 
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I know that here at TPA, if RWY's 18R&L are in use, aircraft taking off generally IMEDIATELY make steep turns to the right or left to comply with noise abatement rules over the south Tampa Penninsula....

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Sounds just like SLC's departure when rwy's 16L &16R are in use.

But I think that they make an immediate right hand climbing turn to 240 for terrain.


Matthew
 
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