Instrument Check Ride Unsatted.....

Mikerohren

Well-Known Member
Hello all, this is my first post here and I am pretty much asking what the repercussion's of the above action will have on my flying career... Basically I got to the very end of my check ride and thought that I was golden, but ended up in a tricky situation... I was told to expect the ILS 21L into KPRC but not cleared so I was supposed to hold at the CRADI fix, the DME at prescott is currently out of service but that was not really my problem. I was flying in a cessna with the g1000 so I loaded the approach just as a back up and elected to fly the approach and hold just using the localizer to show that I wasn't dependent on gps. Anyways, the gps asked me if I wanted to do the procedure turn, and I said no, thinking that I wasn't doing the procedure turn, I was doing the hold, that was my first mistake... I entered the hold correctly and started timing, but then the instructor asked me how I knew I was abeam CRADI, long story short, I was not able to explain how I knew I was abeam CRADI, as well as a few other mistakes, and I unsatted holds... I elected to continue the checkride inbound and execute my final item which was a precision approach... All and all, I passed everything in the check ride except for holds, so now I have to do one or more flights with my instructor and then go out and do a hold and possibly anything thing the check instructor feels necessary. I guess the question I am asking, is 1. how do I know I am abeam a fix when there is no gps and 2. How will this come back to haunt me for lack of a better word?... Thank you for your help in advance....
 
I could have used the GPS but it asked me if I wanted to do the procedure turn and I said no because I though it wouldn't sequence into the hold, and of course it would have... I after I said I did not want to do the procedure turn, I quit using the gps because it was not sequencing me into the hold, I used the gps for the dme from cradi only. But the flight instructor continuously asked me how I knew I was abeam CRADI, and I could not answer that... My problem wasn't distinguishing where CRADI was.
 
I could have used the GPS but it asked me if I wanted to do the procedure turn and I said no because I though it wouldn't sequence into the hold, and of course it would have... I after I said I did not want to do the procedure turn, I quit using the gps because it was not sequencing me into the hold, I used the gps for the dme from cradi only. But the flight instructor continuously asked me how I knew I was abeam CRADI, and I could not answer that... My problem wasn't distinguishing where CRADI was.

You should have entered 042 from DRK on nav 2 and LOC on nav 1. Both centered you are abeam CRADI

And answering your second question.
It won't, people go to school to learn and that includes making mistakes be honest about it when applying for a job and if asked be prepared to explain how you learned from the mistake
 
Are you overthinking this? You're abeam when you start tracking 028. 180 degree standard rate turn yadda yadda

#2 same as above. Learn from it. That includes the holding stuff but also the human factors.
 
I am an IR student right now and this is confusing to me. If both needles are centered wouldn't you be at the fix, not abeam it?

I must admit that I did not read the original post good enough.
I thought you wanted to identify the fix. Not when you were abeam it.
Focus on standard rate of turn. Time it and then you should known when you are there.
 
Start your time outbound when you are abeam the fix (if you can determine that, in which this case you cannot) or wings level after your 180 degree standard rate turn plus/minus any wind correction.
 
Thank you guys, I thought that I was supposed to just start the time once wings level... That wasn't necessarily what ended up leading to the unsatt, but he continually asked me that, and I guess the correct answer was you wouldn't know when you were abeam just an estimation based on wind, thank you IslandFlyer. Unfortunately, after entering the hold I failed to announce the entry because I was confused with why the gps didn't tell me to turn outbound... I still entered the hold fine but also failed to reckognize the descent headwind on the outbound and before I knew it I was way past Cradi inbound wondering why the gps dme was getting larger from Cradi... I think that was the nail in coffin, and after that I corrected but knew that I was most likely going to fail the check ride which of course was bouncing around my head while trying to fly the hold with windy conditions and the check instructor barking confusing questions in my ear... All and all, I will just look back at it as a learning experience, but the most painful part is that I should be instrument rated and doing commercial stuff now if I would have just told the gps that I did want to do the procedure turn.... Oh well, haha....
 
Thank you guys, I thought that I was supposed to just start the time once wings level... That wasn't necessarily what ended up leading to the unsatt, but he continually asked me that, and I guess the correct answer was you wouldn't know when you were abeam just an estimation based on wind, thank you IslandFlyer. Unfortunately, after entering the hold I failed to announce the entry because I was confused with why the gps didn't tell me to turn outbound... I still entered the hold fine but also failed to reckognize the descent headwind on the outbound and before I knew it I was way past Cradi inbound wondering why the gps dme was getting larger from Cradi... I think that was the nail in coffin, and after that I corrected but knew that I was most likely going to fail the check ride which of course was bouncing around my head while trying to fly the hold with windy conditions and the check instructor barking confusing questions in my ear... All and all, I will just look back at it as a learning experience, but the mology.ost painful part is that I should be instrument rated and doing commercial stuff now if I would have just told the gps that I did want to do the procedure turn.... Oh well, haha....

It certainly looks like you were at least at one point confused on your position and got caught up in Garmin dynamics. Confusion is sure sign your checkride will likely not end well.
 
Absolutely, I found my self in a position right before activating the approach that I knew my flight instructor had told me about how the sequencing on the g1000 works but I figured if I had any doubt I would just use the localizer. Here is the weird part, I made sure that I checked the notams for kprc just incase they had fixed the DME before they were expecting too for I-PRC and there was no longer a notam for DME being out of service, but of course once I am finally doing the ILS no DME reading... Either way, I got spatially disoriented after I was expecting to use I-PRC DME, and all the sudden now gps was my only way to get DME (excluding 16.4 from drk on the 042 which would have taken longer to set up), so I loaded the approach again into the g1000 once inbound to CRADI and used that for identifying the fix, unfortunately that confusion and scrambling with the avionics lead to me overshooting CRADI by a mile with the tail wind I had failed to notice before I corrected, as well as my failure to announce my entry into the hold...
 
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I will throw in my 2 cents on your second question about career prospects...

Provided you don't exhibit a pattern of future failures, one check ride failure will not adversely affect your career. You can easily turn it into a learning opportunity and present it as such during any interviews. Lots of us have failed check rides in our past.
 
Flown that approach more times then I can think, assuming you were getting vectors onto the approach you would have needed to suspend the GPS on the G1000 so it didn't sequence. How ever since you were doing a ILS with a GPS overlay you shouldn't have been relying on the GPS as your primary source of nav. DME is given from IPRC and the G1000 shows it automatically. Were you riddle or NA? either way learn from it and it wont impact you much just be able to explain it if anyone ever asks.


BTW CRADI and SWGNS is a remembrance to two riddle CFIs who died in an aircraft accident about 10 years ago just as a little history on both of those fixes.
 
WOW, thats crazy I didn't know that about those fix's! Unfortunately, I had to use the gps partially for DME because the IPRC DME is out of service, and there wasn't even a notam for it before we went out which really through me off when I was expecting to use it, I also don't have a full understanding of the suspend thing on the gps either, and I go to riddle...
 
WOW, thats crazy I didn't know that about those fix's! Unfortunately, I had to use the gps partially for DME because the IPRC DME is out of service, and there wasn't even a notam for it before we went out which really through me off when I was expecting to use it, I also don't have a full understanding of the suspend thing on the gps either, and I go to riddle...

Suspend prevents the GPS from cycling to the next leg of the approach/flightplan. If you press suspend it will keep the current leg active. So if you want to do holding at the IAF, you select the approach with the procedure turn, then after you start the turn you put it in suspend. Remember to un-suspend it or it won't cycle to the next leg.

Sometimes it goes into suspend mode on its own. For instance, if you fly over the MAP it will assume that you landed and automatically suspend. If you want it to cycle to the missed approach you have to press the suspend button to take it out of suspend mode.
 
I will throw in my 2 cents on your second question about career prospects...

Provided you don't exhibit a pattern of future failures, one check ride failure will not adversely affect your career. You can easily turn it into a learning opportunity and present it as such during any interviews. Lots of us have failed check rides in our past.

^^ This.^^
If you own it, and say what you've learned from it, it'll turn into a non-event. If a single failed checkride was a disqualifier, there'd be a tremendous pilot shortage.
 
Airlines care about how many FAA Checkrides you've failed more than they do Part 141 final stage check.

Be happy it happened during the Stage Check. You've learned alot from it. That is the point.
 
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