charlie1017
Well-Known Member
So my initial CFI ride with the feds is coming up in three weeks and my head is just stuffed with so much information! My question is, how much were you allowed to reference (look up) vs know from memory?
"Instructional Knowledge" for CFI Oral Exam
- Thread starter charlie1017
- Start date
There isn't a set number of times your allowed to reference something, but if you have to on every other question it probably won't look too good. Make sure you can answer all of the required Tasks in the CFI PTS and you should do fine. I know it seems overwhealming... I think all CFI applicants feel that way at one point, but we all end up making it!
ILS37R
Well-Known Member
As the others said but, also, know where to look things up. Don't be randomly flipping through your resources scanning for information. Take it as an opportunity to show that you have a good command of the reference material.
Know the FOI stuff plain and simple.
As for the other stuff know where it is be able to reference it in under 60 seconds and you should be fine. Still examiner preference, but I personally found the CFI ride to be one of the biggest jokes. I knew my FOI inside and out and can still resite most of it now (6 months later) and the rest of the stuff I was allowed to look up. I recommend notecards for that FOI stuff, make your own which takes maybe an hour, and man that helped me a lot with remembering all those lists.
My ride went like this, I arrived at 8am and we didn't get started till 8:30. He took my documents and gave me an assignment to teach that I had 30 min to prepare (ended up being nearly an hour because the document check takes a while). Then around 10 we started the brief and briefed for almost 2 hours, most of the time on what I was teaching. I barely had to say anything during the first 1.5 hours of the brief. Then we went over FOI knowledge, he asked me a couple lists I rattled them off and he asked me details on primacy which was easy enough. We next discussed the flight and the importance of nose forward to break the stall (this has been a big fail point according to our FSDO latel, CFI applicants failing to break the stall). Then lunch.
Next was the ride, we went out did some stalls, steep turns, and a lazy 8. I completely botched my steep turn which I explained in another post. I discussed with him why I failed it we did it again and went fine. Ride over.
Didn't leave till 4pm to fly back home. Hope that helps, good luck.
poser765
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind instructional knowledge implies knowing the material and being able to teach it. There is nothing wrong with using aids in teaching. When asked a question there should be no problem using the books to help teach your answer.
With that said it's not hard to tell the difference between someone TEACHING out of a book and someone who doesn't know it pretending to teach out of the book but really using it to find answers.
I think that the amount of rote learning people are almost required to have is kind of pointless.
With that said it's not hard to tell the difference between someone TEACHING out of a book and someone who doesn't know it pretending to teach out of the book but really using it to find answers.
I think that the amount of rote learning people are almost required to have is kind of pointless.
N18040
Well-Known Member
Before starting my oral, the examiner told me that he expected me to answer his questions as though I was teaching him. He said that I will not teach from memory, so I was allowed to use any references I wanted just so long as they did not contradict any FAA publications. Personally I thought it was one of my easier orals.
nosehair
Well-Known Member
If you read in the CFI PTS in the front, the term "instructional knowledge" is defined as "able to teach using appropriate references".
The difference is, that you are using a known, familiar reference, not actually 'looking up an answer', cept maybe a technical number or something.
But the point of "instructional knowledge" is to teach students how to look stuff up. That's what I do.
Look at the reference given for each TASK in each PTS, and be able to use those references.
I tell my students, in the beginning, that my job is to talk myself out of a job, by teaching you how to find all the technical knowledge you will need in the flying business.
The difference is, that you are using a known, familiar reference, not actually 'looking up an answer', cept maybe a technical number or something.
But the point of "instructional knowledge" is to teach students how to look stuff up. That's what I do.
Look at the reference given for each TASK in each PTS, and be able to use those references.
I tell my students, in the beginning, that my job is to talk myself out of a job, by teaching you how to find all the technical knowledge you will need in the flying business.
Don't forget about the FOI, I don't know about your FSDO but ours allowed no books for FOI questions. That information is basically the psychology behind learning, you can't look up how to give a brief/debrief you should flat out know it. Likewise for maslows hierarchy, factors effecting learning, and everything else from that book; all of that book is stuff that should be memorized. At the college we were told to get 100 percent on the FOI book so they don't ask us too many questions about it at the FSDO, boy were they right. (I got a 98 and was only asked a few questions a buddy of mine got in the 70s and he said they spent 45 min on the FOI stuff)
poser765
Well-Known Member
Readiness
Exercise
Effect
Primacy
Intensity
Recency
Ok i can spout of the principles of learning. Don't think that makes me anything resembling a good instructor. I can teach my wife foi in three nights and i bet she can get a 100% on the written. I would be willing to bet she would be a horrible flight instructor.
I think the FOI is good and should be learned, but only at a higher level than rote...which almost no one seems to do for the test or checkride. Seems like we try and try to teach people beyond the first level of learning, but we are perfectly fine stopping there with FOI.
REEPIR, PARM, and CPRDRFAR in no way implies knowledge of the material.
Exercise
Effect
Primacy
Intensity
Recency
Ok i can spout of the principles of learning. Don't think that makes me anything resembling a good instructor. I can teach my wife foi in three nights and i bet she can get a 100% on the written. I would be willing to bet she would be a horrible flight instructor.
I think the FOI is good and should be learned, but only at a higher level than rote...which almost no one seems to do for the test or checkride. Seems like we try and try to teach people beyond the first level of learning, but we are perfectly fine stopping there with FOI.
REEPIR, PARM, and CPRDRFAR in no way implies knowledge of the material.
I agree 100 percent and think they should add studies of multiple intelligences and a stronger look at primacy/safety in the FOI. But that is just me personally, however I was never referring to rote knowledge I was talking about rattling off the lists as well as defining each term and linking them together. Sorry for any confusion.
deadringer86
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat:
nosehair
Well-Known Member
This is where the whole CFI training concept falls flat on it's face and is the reason most young inexperience flight instructors cannot teach. They never learn to actually teach, or use the tools of the FOI.
Which is the direct result of flight schools offering 'minimum' training, and students never-ending search for the 'cheapest ticket'.
And the FAA's direct inability to adequately test FOI during the practical.