Have you sent JC's Flight Physician a message about your medical situation yet?
Info on Pinnacle Direct Track, straight from the horse's mouth
- Thread starter Cherokee_Cruiser
- Start date
Have you sent JC's Flight Physician a message about your medical situation yet?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Yuppsters !!!
But I'm pretty much ok, in the sense that things have moved to the right point in terms of where I need to be.
I'm just waiting on the Letter of Authorization (LOA) to take the medical flight exam. Once you pass that, you get the SODA.
Then, the 1st class medical (which I already hold) and the SODA, both go hand-in-hand to form my "pilot medical."
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
My only fear is will airlines deny you for something like that.
All signs so far have pointed to, "no."
Even Eagle, which is the only regional that does a pre-hire medical, still accepts SODAs and waivers (though a SODA isn't a waiver).
Read This
So you're willing to dump 22 grand for something, that in the end, is not a guarantee. Look at what has happened with these direct track programs. TSA is furloughing. Express Jet's short term future looks a little unstable. American Eagle has 8 year FO's who are still looking at some time before they upgrade. ASA isn't hiring that much and from what I hear, pulled out of the direct track program (not to mention the fact that almost everyone there is pretty angry right now). WHY would you want to even consider spending money to work at any of these places.
It's almost annoying to see this kind of mentality in the industry...........I say go for it...dump your money at ATP, FSA, MAPD or whatever acronym you want....just don't come complaining here when things don't work out the way you expected them to....
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
It's not what's happened to these direct track programs. It's whats happened to these regional airlines. The uncertainties of these regionals like Eagle, ASA, TSA are the same uncertainties that any CFI faces just as well.
The only guarantee you have starting these direct track programs is that you will, eventually, some day get a class date at the airline, provided that airline doesn't fold.
You're dissing ATP, too? Nice.
Anyway, I will not complain if things don't work out as expected.
I will post once I know which program I'm going into, and then I'll post again upon completion to let people know the end result. I will not complain about things if they don't work out, I'll just give an honest assessment of the program at the end (without complaining).
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"the same uncertainties that any CFI faces just as well"
Here's where I disagree. You get your CFI, you put in some time, you have options. You do direct track, you don't have options.
You're trying to say a 1200 hour CFI has the same shot at getting furloughed as a 250 hour direct tracker. With that I agree. Guess what happens after that, though. The 1200 hour CFI walks away and gets a 135 freight job. The direct tracker goes nowhere.
The more experience you have the less you need to fear the uncertainties. Direct trackers have less experience and more to fear.
Here's where I disagree. You get your CFI, you put in some time, you have options. You do direct track, you don't have options.
You're trying to say a 1200 hour CFI has the same shot at getting furloughed as a 250 hour direct tracker. With that I agree. Guess what happens after that, though. The 1200 hour CFI walks away and gets a 135 freight job. The direct tracker goes nowhere.
The more experience you have the less you need to fear the uncertainties. Direct trackers have less experience and more to fear.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Well, there are some options out there... like Airnet takes prop SIC pilots with 500 TT (if you have the connections). I think it's all a matter of who you know. If you have the right connections at some places, then that helps. One CFI (at my old FBO where I got my private), was actually hired as a BeechJet F/O for a small corporate company when he had only about 400 hours TT. His family knew the owner of the company, so go figure. It's all about networking.
Worse comes to worse, you can try male stripping
pavelump
Well-Known Member
Ask yourself this. Who do YOU know? I'm not saying that you don't know anybody, but in citing an example like that, you should know that that's not the norm. You seem to be blind to what others are telling you and you've already made up your mind.
Are you really sure about your decision or are you seeking some sort of affirmation from this group? That's what I get from your posts...
Anyway, good luck with what ever you decide.
Just remember, flight schools know exactly how to play on your love of aviation and desire to be an airline pilot. How do I know? I was a flight instructor and a student at FSA and I saw it every day.
Truer words have never been spoken...... FSA has traditionally done less of the hype, and more producing results, but I guess times are tough right now. Nobody is willing to get into this field for the love of the game anymore. Everyone I seem to run into is in it for some quick bucks and cute flight attendants......lemme tell you that neither of these happen quickly (if at all). Those, IMO are the wrong reason. No matter what you do, you're going to HAVE to work for it. If you want to take the easy road now, Fine...go ahead.
You're gonna have to wait tables when you get furloughed in a year with 500 hours under your belt. You're gonna get pissed off because your choice of companies is based on the least amount of work you can possibly do to get to a regional...enjoy trying to hide from the Junior Assigning crew scheduler waiting at the door when you pull up to the gate. You're gonna feel uncomfortable when your company tells you and the captain that you can DMI a crack in the Propellor...But hey, you didn't have to work hard to get that job. Enjoy your 6 days on, 24 hours off (not even a whole calander day) because your company is so • that they can't keep people working there....but hey, all you had to do was pay 22 grand for it......Enjoy having to ferry airplanes that have the same problem with mysterious locking brakes on one side of the airplane...and have them tell you they won't put you up in a hotel for the 10 hours you have to sit there while they fix the airplane......ahh but it was easy to get to that company........
Or....you can work your ass off as a CFI or a Parachute jump pilot.....fly cargo..whatever. Then when you have 1500 hours of *QUALITY* time, you can apply to the regional you want......You can have a sweet 4 day on 4 day off schedule with no worries of being junior assigned when you pull up to the gate....show up to work, do your thing, go home...that's it. You can choose a stable company who probably won't furlough in the next 5 years while you cut your teeth in this industry. You can work for a company who never *EVER* questions anything related to maintenance...if you want it fixed, it gets fixed...not because they have to, but because it's the right thing to do.
Choose whatever you want...don't look for vindication from us for what you want to do. I have seen many of those direct track/ATP CRJ type course people who are very bitter at the industry...they don't know what they're getting into when they sign up. All they see it the glitter and the glamour of flying for an airline with the minimal amount of work..
the choice is yours....
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
What are you implying here?!?!
That airlines will only Junior Mann direct tracker pilots? ALL those problems you mentioned above are about as likely to happen to a 1500 hour CFI as they are likely to happen to a direct track pilot.... you are both pilots on the airline's seniority list.
That's bull.
Name one regional airline that has not junior assigned. You WILL get junior assinged at some point at a regional. Everyone gets junior manned at some point, ASA, Eagle, XJT, SKYW, Mesa, you name it.
Stable company that won't furlough for the next 5 years? Ha. Do you have a crystal ball I can look into?
If you had told me in 2000 that ACA would lose it's United contract, then spin off and form their own airline called Independance Airlines, and then that it would fold in 2006, I would have laughed at you. But then look what happened.
XJT was all nice and happy before Continental decided last year to hose them out of 25% of their aircraft capacity.
The bottom line is in this industry with regionals constantly bidding over others' flying, you cannot predict who will be where iin 5 years.
My view is pick a regional where you think you will have the best QOL in terms of living in base. You live in Detroit? Then getting on with PNCL might be better for you then commuting every time to some California base with Skywest.
I understand, but I'm sure it boils down to it being the Captain's call, since he/she has final authority. And if it's an ALPA carrier, they will back him/her up.
*******************************
Your analogy is messed up. I honestly don't get it. You are making it sound like only Direct Trackers would face the problems associated with flying for a regional. I'm saying the CFI's will face the same problems flying for a regional (junior assinging, crappy management, etc).
Direct Tracks have a choice of Eagle, ASA, TSA, XJT, and PNCL. CFI's have a choice of those five, and a few others like Skywest, Horizon, and Mesa (among others).
Regardless, eveyrone will end up with the same problems associated with flying for a regional.
Pavelpump and launchpad, both of you think I haven't thought any of this through. But you're wrong. I have thought a lot about this, and I've done research, too.
I didn't go to FSA and take a $100k loan to fly, that would just be plain stupid. I instead decided to get a degree in Aero engineering.
Here I am, 22 years old, working a 40 hour a week job that will net $60,000 /yr.
So you know,
1. I won't get hosed by going in debt... since I'll pay for any PACE/Direct Track with cash that I will save up.
2. If I get furloughed, or if the industry takes another dive, if things don't work out.... then I have no qualms in going back to engineering and working like I am now.
$60,000 for a 22 year old (with no loans) working 40 hours a week is *unbeatable*.
I have researched into the regionals. I know what I'm getting into. I know my salary will be reduced by TWO THIRDS OF WHAT I MAKE NOW !
But I'm preparing for it. I realize it will be very hard.
I'm not the one who went to a 4 year ERAU college degree and flight program, and took over $100k in loans. Good luck to anyone who has that to pay it off. Why would they take $100k in loans to pay off with a job that starts you at $20k ? I don't know, beats me. But if you're one of those guys, best of luck to you.
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Not to get into the middle of this, but this is NOT true! The only people who get 500TT interviews are people who work for Airnet, and there haven't been any in a while, from what I understand. You can apply at 500TT, and maybe get an interview at 750-850TT, with them telling you to go get up to 1050TT+ and then you can come to class.
You could always go to Gulfstream and build the 250 hours, but then you'll get laughed out of the interview, so I don't recommend it.
ananoman
New Member
I'll never understand the allure of being a regional airline pilot. If you want to go to FlightSafety's Academy, you might consider their internship opportunities instead of the direct track. No entry level job pays the big bucks, but you could easily start out making twice what a regional FO does and have more job security.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Cherokee_Cruiser,
You should tell us more about this cool $60k/yr job that you apparently love so much and think is so unbeatable that you'd gladly pay $22,500 for a shot at making, well, the same amount of money sleeping in a hotel 8 days a month being CS's biatch.
Something tells me you don't like your job so much. Personally I find it flattering that someone is willing to pay $22,500 for my job. Even more flattering is it's someone that makes double my salary (you must've missed my post in the other forum) and is willing to PAY TO TAKE A 50% PAY CUT. Holy christ, no wonder the regional MEC's can't make any progress with pay.
Here's how much it's really costing you to do this:
$22,500 direct track cost
+ $60,000 lost wages from first year of quitting your ultra cool unbeatable job
-----------------------------------
$82,500 Total cost for first year
- $25,000 (first years wages at typical regional)
-----------------------------------
$57,500
Moving on to year two...
$57,500 loss from prior year
+ $60,000 lost wages from quitting your ultra cool unbeatable job
-----------------------------------
$117,500
- $35,000 (second years wages at typical regional)
-----------------------------------
$82,500
A fool and his money....
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Wheelsup,
Thank you for your genuine well-thought out post.
As for my engineering job itself, it's not that I dont like it.... I do enjoy it. As with any jobs, some days are great, some days blow.
I'd like to start off by saying that I have always wanted to be an airline pilot, and the only reason I became an engineer is to get a good back up in case flying plans didn't work out.
I was a high school senior when 9/11 happened, and immediately I decided against going to ERAU, and instead applied to Michigan's engineering program.
I got in, did Aerospace engineering, and just got out April 2006.
I never counted on getting a job that pays this much straight out of college, but it is Michigan engineering, and those guys are always hired at usually very decent/high pay.
But my goal has been to always fly.
Yes, I'll have to take a huge paycut... not 50% like you said, but almost 66.6% (2/3) of what I make now.
And yes, year two and three will be at a huge loss as well. But what are you saying anyway?
Regardless of Direct Track or not, I'll still end up at a regional where first year salary is $22k, and my "foregone" salary will be 60k-22k = 38k
Then repeate for second year, regional salary 32k and "foregone" salary 60k-32k = 28k.
So over two years, *just for flying for a regional airline* , I will lose $66k.
The only way to stop this loss would be to forget my dream of flying, and continue my job as an engineer.
I can't do that. I want to pursue my goals. If things don't work out, I can always come back to engineering.
Thank you for your genuine well-thought out post.
As for my engineering job itself, it's not that I dont like it.... I do enjoy it. As with any jobs, some days are great, some days blow.
I'd like to start off by saying that I have always wanted to be an airline pilot, and the only reason I became an engineer is to get a good back up in case flying plans didn't work out.
I was a high school senior when 9/11 happened, and immediately I decided against going to ERAU, and instead applied to Michigan's engineering program.
I got in, did Aerospace engineering, and just got out April 2006.
I never counted on getting a job that pays this much straight out of college, but it is Michigan engineering, and those guys are always hired at usually very decent/high pay.
But my goal has been to always fly.
Yes, I'll have to take a huge paycut... not 50% like you said, but almost 66.6% (2/3) of what I make now.
And yes, year two and three will be at a huge loss as well. But what are you saying anyway?
Regardless of Direct Track or not, I'll still end up at a regional where first year salary is $22k, and my "foregone" salary will be 60k-22k = 38k
Then repeate for second year, regional salary 32k and "foregone" salary 60k-32k = 28k.
So over two years, *just for flying for a regional airline* , I will lose $66k.
The only way to stop this loss would be to forget my dream of flying, and continue my job as an engineer.
I can't do that. I want to pursue my goals. If things don't work out, I can always come back to engineering.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
FSA and PACE aren't buying your job. Gulfstream would be buying your job, since you pay to sit in the right seat of a Part 121 airline. And I wouldn't label FSA's Direct Track and Mesa's PACE as anything near the Gulfstream Training Academy's program.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
thanks for the quick lesson. but who said anything about buying a job? you're buying your dream/goals in life. kinda like a trophy wife...
in the same way that kids that grow up getting everything paid for by their parents don't appreciate anything, you won't appreciate accomplishing your dream.....
have fun
You're right...you're buying an interview...big difference I guess.....People with those times on their resume's would normally be scoffed at for even trying to apply. For some reason people who are willing to drop 25 Large for a program are able to get an interview...those that aren't willing to drop the money aren't even given a glance......think about it...
as far as my last post, I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't implying that only Direct Track folks experience those things. I was just implying that the wonderful regionals that are participants of those direct track programs have had those problems in the past. (Eagle and XJet are exceptions with the MX issues...ASA may be also, but I've heard some stories). My question is still, would you pay to work for a crappy regional where life will be miserable, and borderline unsafe in some situations, rather than building your experience and being able to work for better companies??????
BTW, there are regionals that have NO junior manning....all of the ones that participate in the direct track program do junior man, and sometimes have people waiting at the gate to snag you before you can run home.
Oh ya, ExpressJet hasn't always been as good of a place to work. Search for some posts or google it.
There have been places that have never furloughed...skywest being one of them. I'd like to see a 240 hour pilot apply...that would be a good laugh. In fact, they've told FSA over and over again that they want nothing to do with the direct track program.............
I agree with you on one point..being based where you live. It's a good thing. I like it. But I would take commuting to a good company vs. living in base at a crappy company with an uncertain future...any day.
TexasFlyer
Living the Dream (well at least trying to)
Flying for a Regional is not a trophy job, that's for sure. But, I would love a trophy wife... anyone have a link where I can purchase one of those for about $20K? If so, count me in...