In your opinion how is the pay scale.

we should definitely start a new thread called warnings for nubees, then let the more experienced guys give warnings/constructive criticism and so on to us new ready to get our heads kicked in cti babies :) in fact.. i think imma start one now :)
 
So, in lieu of all this rhetoric, I ask you old pros this question (and it is with nothing but respect so no need to bash):

Lets just say ALL prospective controllers were to heed your advice and run for the hills, what would be the outcome? Controllers are some of the best folks in the world for thinking ahead of a problem...so, what would happen to the workforce? Do you think as soon as applicants stopped applying or quit, etc, the FAA would sit back down at the table with NATCA and up the pay structure? What would occur if all trainees at the academy suddenly quit and all applicants stopped the process?

I am not nearly as versed in FAA policy as the men and women who interact with it everyday. I would like to see your constructive viewpoints though on how the situation could be corrected with the previous advice.
 
sub-stdrd phrsology girl said:
think about the fact that you'll initially be making less than a Wendy's employee
Click to expand...
Academy Starting Wage=
($9.00 an hour X 8 hours) + $79.20 per diem = $151.20 a weekday
$151.20 X 5 days = $756.00 for 5 weekdays
$79.20 X 2 wekkend days = $158.40 for 2 weekend days
$756.00 + $158.40 = $914.40 per week
$914.40/ 40 hours = $22.86 an hour
If I make it to S56, i'll begin at $19.70 an hour.
-Can anyone who has been through OKC Academy lately confirm or correct this?
-If this is correct, will Wendy's really pay me $22.86/hr or even $19.70/hr to start flipping burgers and do I still get free kool aid?
 
Beehive said:
Academy Starting Wage=
($9.00 an hour X 8 hours) + $79.20 per diem = $151.20 a weekday
$151.20 X 5 days = $756.00 for 5 weekdays
$79.20 X 2 wekkend days = $158.40 for 2 weekend days
$756.00 + $158.40 = $914.40 per week
$914.40/ 40 hours = $22.86 an hour
If I make it to S56, i'll begin at $19.70 an hour.
-Can anyone who has been through OKC Academy lately confirm or correct this?
-If this is correct, will Wendy's really pay me $22.86/hr or even $19.70/hr to start flipping burgers and do I still get free kool aid?
Click to expand...

Per diem, at least at the job I'm at now, you only get what you use... so if your apartment is $30/day, they only reimburse you for the $30. I'm not sure how they do food, you probably have to give them all your receipts or something? If they do just give you $79.20 a day, why don't they just pay you an extra $10/hr, after taxes it'd work out the same?

you're right, though, either way you'd be making more than a wendy's employee, but those baked potatoes are damn good!!
 
Beehive said:
Academy Starting Wage=
($9.00 an hour X 8 hours) + $79.20 per diem = $151.20 a weekday
$151.20 X 5 days = $756.00 for 5 weekdays
$79.20 X 2 wekkend days = $158.40 for 2 weekend days
$756.00 + $158.40 = $914.40 per week
$914.40/ 40 hours = $22.86 an hour
If I make it to S56, i'll begin at $19.70 an hour.
-Can anyone who has been through OKC Academy lately confirm or correct this?
-If this is correct, will Wendy's really pay me $22.86/hr or even $19.70/hr to start flipping burgers and do I still get free kool aid?
Click to expand...

Looks about right Bee. It won't look exactly like that though. The perdiem checks are separate. After 15 days you get 79.20 for 15 days of lodging receipts that you submit. You repeat this process every 15 days and the checks take anywhere from 3 days to 2 weeks to get out. $40 something if you don't stay in commercial lodging(basically you have to stay somewhere that will give you a printed receipt or lease). The only receipts I have had to give are for my lodging, I have not been asked to submit receipts for anything else.

You get the FULL amount of per diem no matter how much you use.

I will give my general paycheck info: net from pay 300. Perdiem: 1188. Per diem takes a little longer than the paycheck, but your still getting paid.

Your pay includes locality from the facility your going to. One person going to So Cal tracon in my class had a net of $400. My facility just has a low locality rate.

Total approximately: $3000/ mo. If you can make that at Wendy's please tell me how unless your a manager.

Someone who says you make more flipping burgers at Wendy's obviously doesn't pay attention to current events, never worked at Wendy's, failed math in school, or is just jaded for some reason and would complain no matter how much they got. I may have missed some reasons, but that is my thoughts on this matter.

Now if you had said Taco Bell................Just kidding:)
 
FLATC said:
So, in lieu of all this rhetoric, I ask you old pros this question (and it is with nothing but respect so no need to bash):

Lets just say ALL prospective controllers were to heed your advice and run for the hills, what would be the outcome? Controllers are some of the best folks in the world for thinking ahead of a problem...so, what would happen to the workforce? Do you think as soon as applicants stopped applying or quit, etc, the FAA would sit back down at the table with NATCA and up the pay structure? What would occur if all trainees at the academy suddenly quit and all applicants stopped the process?

I am not nearly as versed in FAA policy as the men and women who interact with it everyday. I would like to see your constructive viewpoints though on how the situation could be corrected with the previous advice.
Click to expand...

the short answer is yes.its just not the pay issue its that the FAA has imposed a set of work rules on its atc work force and are trying to call it a contract, as a controller i want a contract that we can vote yes or no on.heres a little tidbit for you nubees, the FAA offered NATCA , if you agree to the lower pay for the new controller, the old controllers could stay on the old pay scale with all the yearly raises.NATCA said NO and i agree 1000% in rejecting the B-scale pay.and what did the FAA do?they walked away from the contract table imposed the new pay and work rules.i guess they thought the controller work force would do there dirty work for them, but we didnt.


P.S. and another fun fact nubees, the only reason your getting per diem is because of all the CTI folks who woud not take the job leaving classes with as little as 5 students.
 
Beehive said:
Academy Starting Wage=
($9.00 an hour X 8 hours) + $79.20 per diem = $151.20 a weekday
$151.20 X 5 days = $756.00 for 5 weekdays
$79.20 X 2 wekkend days = $158.40 for 2 weekend days
$756.00 + $158.40 = $914.40 per week
$914.40/ 40 hours = $22.86 an hour
If I make it to S56, i'll begin at $19.70 an hour.
-Can anyone who has been through OKC Academy lately confirm or correct this?
-If this is correct, will Wendy's really pay me $22.86/hr or even $19.70/hr to start flipping burgers and do I still get free kool aid?
Click to expand...

So then, if you make it to S56 you'll see an hourly pay cut?

Does that sound right to you?
 
My whole point with calling queeno a dipsh.. was out of line surreal I just want to say I was put in my place by an Old S"k"ooler, I will wise up.

right anyway, if you look around the forums some of you especially queeno seem to be the most negative people on the forums. I haven't read one positive word from you on the board and so I was just letting the original poster to take your posts with a little salt. Hearing you rant and calling people "stupid" who honestly want to try to make this their career is pathetic. As for the Old S"k"ooler (<-- real hip by the way) Surreal who says that those who still interesed in becoming an ATC are "children" and are "ignorant". You guys have to see that you are really not helping anyone who wants honest information.

You have every right to be pissed about the new payscale and working rules but damn you guys let it ruin your outlook on everything your profession deals with. Who is acting childish???
 
alrighty ive been around here looking at threads long enough without saying anything.
alot of you are really ignorant and dont understand all the circumstances, so lets go over them

the FAA has a budget they have to get approval of every year. From that budget they have a air traffic budget. in that budget they have to pay the old people plus hire new people.

ok everyone still with me?

now were adding 5000 people to the workforce on the same budget constraints from years ago.....now if you do math how the hell can you add 5000 people at the same wage? YOU CANT.
so you cut the new peoples wages to hire more new people to replace the old people
3 newbies for every retiree, or underold payscale. 1.5 for 1, well that doesnt quite workout that well
well if you dont like that
too bad

here would be the end statement if they didnt make the paycut
the facilities will continue to be understaffed!

so for all of you, please stop complaining and understand why they had to make the paycut. dont yell at the faa, go to the senate, its them who decided to do it when they didnt give the FAA the money they wanted so they didnt have to do this.

sorry for the rant, but some of you are just ignorant!
 
surreal1221 said:
So then, if you make it to S56 you'll see an hourly pay cut?
Does that sound right to you?
Click to expand...
Of course it doesn't sound right. I understand the reason for the cut and I will not quit my attempt at this career due to it.
Check this, if I make it to OKC, after basics and 9 days of ITR training, I would be bumped up to my facility pay for the last 18 days of RTF.
 
surreal1221 said:
So then, if you make it to S56 you'll see an hourly pay cut?

Does that sound right to you?
Click to expand...

In the sense that you lose perdiem yes. Everybody's pay goes down when they lose per diem. Heck I took a considerable pay cut when I left training in Marquette, MI as a mechanic for American Eagle. Why? I lost the extra money for being away from my maintenance base.

Your actual pay goes up pretty well when you hit your facility. Now those going to CA, NY, or other high cost of living places? It hurts. But there are plenty of regional pilots out there making a lot less in the time it takes to reach CPC at most facilities.

Is the pay great? No. Is it comparably livable and better than most of the other jobs in aviation? I think so.

Also will the pay go back up? Maybe not where it was, but it will still go higher. It is already higher than what is was when the IWR's were implemented.
 
dcatcdude said:
alrighty ive been around here looking at threads long enough without saying anything.
alot of you are really ignorant and dont understand all the circumstances, so lets go over them

the FAA has a budget they have to get approval of every year. From that budget they have a air traffic budget. in that budget they have to pay the old people plus hire new people.

ok everyone still with me?

now were adding 5000 people to the workforce on the same budget constraints from years ago.....now if you do math how the hell can you add 5000 people at the same wage? YOU CANT.
so you cut the new peoples wages to hire more new people to replace the old people
3 newbies for every retiree, or underold payscale. 1.5 for 1, well that doesnt quite workout that well
well if you dont like that
too bad

here would be the end statement if they didnt make the paycut
the facilities will continue to be understaffed!

so for all of you, please stop complaining and understand why they had to make the paycut. dont yell at the faa, go to the senate, its them who decided to do it when they didnt give the FAA the money they wanted so they didnt have to do this.

sorry for the rant, but some of you are just ignorant!
Click to expand...

I can't disagree more ... all the money that was "saved" was pissed away either through bonuses paid to the slow adults in management or wasted on projects that will never see the light of day. This had nothing to do with money. Why do you think NATCA got all our language in S1300 including return to the green book and back pay ??? Because the FAA's message about money is flawed and they proved it last year in a one week closed door negotiation on the order of the heads of the aviation subcommittee. The FAA asked for a savings, NATCA came to the FAA with a financial offer that congressman gave the nod to and the FAA backed away and said it's not about money. They showed their true hand to members of congress and the members took notice.

I heard the tapes of the FAA's Nazi convention in St. Louis where one tool after another (Ducharme) stood up and said this is about one thing... CONTROL. The FAA made every single level of management attend this thing and then sign a paper saying that they are with the FAA and against NATCA. Wake up ... this is union busting 101, plain and simple. This comes straight from the White House, the FAA's mission is to break the union and it's killing them they we have not gone away.

They can't afford to pay new hires a fair wage but they can afford 25K bonuses for retirees to stay ??? They can afford 20K bonuses for people to move to short staffed facilities ??? They can afford 20K bonuses to VRA's to try and lure them from the military (the military BTW is offering 45K for them to stay....)

Come on dude... it sounds like you enjoyed some of that FAA Kool Aid ...
 
FedererFan said:
You have every right to be pissed about the new payscale and working rules but damn you guys let it ruin your outlook on everything your profession deals with. Who is acting childish???
Click to expand...

It's not just that dude... everyday that I go to work I'm working for an employer who hates my guts. Controllers for the FAA are the best in the world, no one can touch us for volume and complexity worked and safety. We take our profession very serious and in turn we feel we should be treated as the professionals that we are.

Yes... I am worked up about what is going on. I'm pissed that the new hire can't pay his rent while my new supervisor who failed several check rides (which were swept under the rug) was given a 5K bonus for leaving early on busy days and not drooling on himself the others. I'm pissed that the head of training at my facility is a person who was removed from working traffic after so many operational errors they were afraid people would get killed, she now makes decisions about trainees futures and rates their potential as controllers.

Things are far worse behind the scenes then people think. I feel that working traffic is one of the greatest jobs in the world and it infuriates me the way the FAA is treating their new employees. I was sad to see many trainees around me quit, guys and girls that I trained that had the potential to be really good controllers and good coworkers, forced to leave by management run amok.
 
Fox Xray said:
I was sad to see many trainees around me quit, guys and girls that I trained that had the potential to be really good controllers and good coworkers, forced to leave by management run amok.
Click to expand...

You can train me!! I won't quit! I'm used to working for an employer that doesn't even recognize that I exist, aside from the weekly paycheck and my computer login... I won't even get into how bad the management is here!! So needless to say, I'm used to the abuse. At least if I got hired as an ATC (something I've wanted to do for a long time) I'd be getting health insurance (eventually).

Fox Xray said:
I'm pissed that the new hire can't pay his rent while my new supervisor who failed several check rides (which were swept under the rug) was given a 5K bonus for leaving early on busy days and not drooling on himself the others.
Click to expand...

We have a lot of those here. :crazy:
 
you got to get checked out first nubee, remember you off the street folks will be your own worst enemys, you stumble in training and it out the door to be replaced by another person who is willing to work for 2nd class pay and work rules.all the FAA CARES IS ABOUT NUMBERS.
 
you'll like this one queeno.
I have a friend who has a friend and his dad works at a Salt Lake City facility, all Grade 10's and he has been working there for 10 to 15 years and claims to make $300k. "He has a nice house and a nice boat so I didn't doubt it but it seemed like a lot money for an ATC" my friend told me. I laughed and explained the truth.
So the public thinks a ATC working a Grade 10 facility makes $300k, grade 12 controllers must make $400k...at least!
 
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