In your experience, why are some pilots are regionals “lifers?”

Even legacy airlines for that matter. Remember Eastern, Pan Am, Braniff? TWA also took a serious screw job with AA. You just can't tell. Since I started at the airlines in 12 yrs, I've gone through 2 mergers including 2 binding arbitration SLIs. If you told me when I started in 2007 I'd work for AS airlines, I would have probably laughed. I never even flew on an AS flight. In fact, the first time I ever flew an AS 737 was on reserve last fall on a DH from SJC-SEA.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Even legacy airlines for that matter. Remember Eastern, Pan Am, Braniff? TWA also took a serious screw job with AA. You just can't tell. Since I started at the airlines in 12 yrs, I've gone through 2 mergers including 2 binding arbitration SLIs. If you told me when I started in 2007 I'd work for AS airlines, I would have probably laughed. I never even flew on an AS flight. In fact, the first time I ever flew an AS 737 was on reserve last fall on a DH from SJC-SEA.
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If not for crony capitalism and bankruptcy laws that aren’t real bankruptcy laws, the legacies wouldn’t exist today either.
 
It’s a combo of luck, skeletons, moving out of comfort zone, and laziness. Love the QOL and $$ arguement. I have a friend who is a lifer at Mormon Air, him and his wife are constantly worried about flying coming and going, moving to chase the flying and he legitimately thinks he makes quite a bit more than me as a 4 year SJI FO. He thinks he can’t afford to move on... I gave up trying to convince him and wasn’t about to go tool and bust out the W2.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
It’s a combo of luck, skeletons, moving out of comfort zone, and laziness. Love the QOL and $$ arguement. I have a friend who is a lifer at Mormon Air, him and his wife are constantly worried about flying coming and going, moving to chase the flying and he legitimately thinks he makes quite a bit more than me as a 4 year SJI FO. He thinks he can’t afford to move on... I gave up trying to convince him and wasn’t about to go tool and bust out the W2.
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I know a couple guys like that too. When they use the pay argument, I know then and there they just aren’t comfortable trying something new.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
It’s a combo of luck, skeletons, moving out of comfort zone, and laziness. Love the QOL and $$ arguement. I have a friend who is a lifer at Mormon Air, him and his wife are constantly worried about flying coming and going, moving to chase the flying and he legitimately thinks he makes quite a bit more than me as a 4 year SJI FO. He thinks he can’t afford to move on... I gave up trying to convince him and wasn’t about to go tool and bust out the W2.
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In my opinion, you can’t afford NOT to take a pay. The pay cut argument is so stupid.
 
GypsyPilot said:
I know a couple guys like that too. When they use the pay argument, I know then and there they just aren’t comfortable trying something new.
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I don’t know all the economics in play but I do know that us older guys take a HARD look at a possible pay cut and what it does to retirement earnings. It’s a very real concern not to be taken lightly.


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CFIT99 said:
agreed, I left my last job because I had an influx of 55+ y/o pilots who had decades on a beechjet and couldn't handle a modern FMS much less hand fly.

3 times I've been told to "Go F*** myself" because I didn't sign them off for their checkride. 3 times. 1 Guy just got up and resigned.

I loved that job until that crap starting happening
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Whoa, you mean as an instructor you were giving a pre-checkride and they told you to go eff yourself? Dude I would revoke their ATP on the spot. Just take it and flush down the toilet. If he asks how he’s supposed to get the license out, tell him “you’re a shi**y pilot, you’ll figure it out.” :D
 
killbilly said:
I don’t know all the economics in play but I do know that us older guys take a HARD look at a possible pay cut and what it does to retirement earnings. It’s a very real concern not to be taken lightly.


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Of course. But second year pay at the big six is more than almost any regional pilot is making. Throw in retirement, and I can’t see how this is even a thing. This doesn’t even include upgrading at a legacy.
 
Jordan93 said:
In my opinion, you can’t afford NOT to take a pay. The pay cut argument is so stupid.
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Can I ask your age?

It’s easy to say all this stuff. But call a spade a spade, Emu and Derg don’t have kids. The whole ball game chnaged in this career if you don’t have rug rats. You have a lot more options and risk you can take cause at worse you’re only gonna negatively affect yourself and spouse (if you’re married). Clarkgriswold and myself were lucky to be hired at our carriers in our 20s. Again, it’s much easier to make these leaps when you are young and with either no kids or just babies at the moment.


Now put yourself in the shoes of a 40-50 yr old RJ CA (of which there are thousands, thanks to the lost decade). Now they’re making $120-150k+ with great schedules, time off as they want, kids established in schools and spouses with jobs that are established. At this stage, they are not in a position to go to 1st yr pay and commute to a base far away and start at the bottom of a list again. So I totally get that. But just know that regional airlines aren’t guaranteed in any way. It’s a gamble.

Why did I leave the east coast for a west coast carrier? Simple. It was an escape from the regional but more importantly, there were no kids at that point. No kids made the decision a LOT easier. If there were already kids, I don’t think I would have even applied to VX. Just jetblue, Spirit, Frontier.

But on that same token of “you just can’t tell” as life turned out I had kids and now we are moving to the west coast anyway. Mainly so because it’s hard to walk away from 8th yr A320 CA pay.


The point: At any given moment in life we can only make the decisions we can based on our current situation and the cards we have dealt today. The future is unpredictable so do what you think is best today. Now that I have kids, entering exactly mid 30s, I totally understand RJ lifers and hold nothing against them.
 
killbilly said:
I don’t know all the economics in play but I do know that us older guys take a HARD look at a possible pay cut and what it does to retirement earnings. It’s a very real concern not to be taken lightly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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When I hit two years and 1 day at Azul I'll make nearly twice what I did as a captain at compass.

Plus a 15% DC to my 401k without having to contribute a dime myself.

It isn't even close, and this is without getting to work rules.
 
jtrain609 said:
When I hit two years and 1 day at Azul I'll make nearly twice what I did as a captain at compass.

Plus a 15% DC to my 401k without having to contribute a dime myself.

It isn't even close, and this is without getting to work rules.
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I wont quite be double, but by the time I hit year four I will make more than I ever could at my regional. Plus better retirement. Its a win win.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Can I ask your age?

It’s easy to say all this stuff. But call a spade a spade, Emu and Derg don’t have kids. The whole ball game chnaged in this career if you don’t have rug rats. You have a lot more options and risk you can take cause at worse you’re only gonna negatively affect yourself and spouse (if you’re married). Clarkgriswold and myself were lucky to be hired at our carriers in our 20s. Again, it’s much easier to make these leaps when you are young and with either no kids or just babies at the moment.


Now put yourself in the shoes of a 40-50 yr old RJ CA (of which there are thousands, thanks to the lost decade). Now they’re making $120-150k+ with great schedules, time off as they want, kids established in schools and spouses with jobs that are established. At this stage, they are not in a position to go to 1st yr pay and commute to a base far away and start at the bottom of a list again. So I totally get that. But just know that regional airlines aren’t guaranteed in any way. It’s a gamble.

Why did I leave the east coast for a west coast carrier? Simple. It was an escape from the regional but more importantly, there were no kids at that point. No kids made the decision a LOT easier. If there were already kids, I don’t think I would have even applied to VX. Just jetblue, Spirit, Frontier.

But on that same token of “you just can’t tell” as life turned out I had kids and now we are moving to the west coast anyway. Mainly so because it’s hard to walk away from 8th yr A320 CA pay.


The point: At any given moment in life we can only make the decisions we can based on our current situation and the cards we have dealt today. The future is unpredictable so do what you think is best today. Now that I have kids, entering exactly mid 30s, I totally understand RJ lifers and hold nothing against them.
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Ya, I disagree with all this. I think it's a disservice to your family if you allow yourself to be a lifer at a regional aka contractor? To be honest I think the lifer life style is better suited to no kid people. GTFO, especially if you have kids depending on you and your contract could end tomorrow. Hello Comair.. As @jtrain609 just stated it makes total financial sense. Even someone in their 40s-50s. I had a couple guys in my new hire class that were in their 50s, I can guarantee you they do not regret leaving. Both can be Captain, 1 is. Saw him a few months ago and he is loving life, even as a JR commuting NYC 717 Captain.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Ya, I disagree with all this. I think it's a disservice to your family if you allow yourself to be a lifer at a regional aka contractor? To be honest I think the lifer life style is better suited to no kid people. GTFO, especially if you have kids depending on you and your contract could end tomorrow. Hello Comair.. As @jtrain609 just stated it makes total financial sense. Even someone in their 40s-50s. I had a couple guys in my new hire class that were in their 50s, I can guarantee you they do not regret leaving. Both can be Captain, 1 is. Saw him a few months ago and he is loving life, even as a JR commuting NYC 717 Captain.
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Yep. Lots of guys from my regional started just before and after me at Purple, almost all of them in their 40s-50s. All were senior, and a few were LCAs. In talking to them about their decision, they’ve all basically said it’s a relief to be here now. Certainly none of them regret it.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Can I ask your age?

It’s easy to say all this stuff. But call a spade a spade, Emu and Derg don’t have kids. The whole ball game chnaged in this career if you don’t have rug rats. You have a lot more options and risk you can take cause at worse you’re only gonna negatively affect yourself and spouse (if you’re married). Clarkgriswold and myself were lucky to be hired at our carriers in our 20s. Again, it’s much easier to make these leaps when you are young and with either no kids or just babies at the moment.


Now put yourself in the shoes of a 40-50 yr old RJ CA (of which there are thousands, thanks to the lost decade). Now they’re making $120-150k+ with great schedules, time off as they want, kids established in schools and spouses with jobs that are established. At this stage, they are not in a position to go to 1st yr pay and commute to a base far away and start at the bottom of a list again. So I totally get that. But just know that regional airlines aren’t guaranteed in any way. It’s a gamble.

Why did I leave the east coast for a west coast carrier? Simple. It was an escape from the regional but more importantly, there were no kids at that point. No kids made the decision a LOT easier. If there were already kids, I don’t think I would have even applied to VX. Just jetblue, Spirit, Frontier.

But on that same token of “you just can’t tell” as life turned out I had kids and now we are moving to the west coast anyway. Mainly so because it’s hard to walk away from 8th yr A320 CA pay.


The point: At any given moment in life we can only make the decisions we can based on our current situation and the cards we have dealt today. The future is unpredictable so do what you think is best today. Now that I have kids, entering exactly mid 30s, I totally understand RJ lifers and hold nothing against them.
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25. You can make 120 easily as a second year FO at a legacy. If you hustle a little bit first year you could make that too. The potential career earnings outweighs everything.
 
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