Important Pic Question

aviatorrbt

aviatorrbt

New Member
I understand that the FARAIM states that for someone to act as PIC they must have made 3 landings and takeoffs in the last 90 days. However, I have not flown in the last 90 days and my pilot friend and I would like to make a long CC. Since he would like to practice under the hood, I would be the safety pilot. I can the log PIC time. However, do I need to be up-to-date on my flying to be able to do that???

AviatorRBT
 
Actually the FAR says that you may not carry passengers unless you have met the 3 takeoff and landings recency requirement.
 
Technically you are both pilots logging PIC (one acting, one sole manipulator), so there is no passenger on the flight. I'd say you should be OK without the 3 take offs and landings, but can't say that with total certainty.

To be safe, like a previous poster said, take it up in the pattern 3 times.
 
Whoever is acting pic and signs for the plane needs the landings. The only way you can log pic time as safety pilot is if you are acting pic, so yeah you need the landings and your friend does not.
 
According to §91.109, you do NOT need to have the 3 takeoffs and landings because you yourself are nothing else but a safety pilot (and won't be doing the landings). The only thing it says that is required is that you hold a Private Pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings. You don't even have to have a current medical! Crap, you can even have the safety pilot stare only at the instruments to make sure the pilot performing the simulated instrument approaches is proficient enough and have a 12 year old kid in the back seat as the "competent obvserver" to adequately supplement the vision of the safety pilot. Heck, I'd rather rely on some young kid's crystal clear vision over an old retired Private Pilot safety pilot :)
 
Jace is wrong, to be a safety pilot you do indeed need a current medical. Also, when the foggles come off (ie landing), your safety pilot then becomes a passenger. You need the three bounces to be legal.

Remember, the safety pilot is acting PIC....not the person flying.
 
FLpilot said:
Jace is wrong, to be a safety pilot you do indeed need a current medical.
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Correct FLpilot. Sorry Jace, but you certainly need a current medical to be a safety pilot. I am fresh on this one since I just finished my CFI renewal :)
 
chrisdahut1 said:
Technically you are both pilots logging PIC (one acting, one sole manipulator), so there is no passenger on the flight.
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That's not true. A pilot, even one who is performing assigned duties or mianiplatuing the controls is no more than a passenger unless the operation requires more than one pilot. (which takes place only when one of them is operating the controls under the hood). In a scenario where there is one qualified PIC, one sole manipulator, there is only one required pilot on board. The other is a passenger.

I understand that the FARAIM states that for someone to act as PIC they must have made 3 landings and takeoffs in the last 90 days. However, I have not flown in the last 90 days and my pilot friend and I would like to make a long CC. Since he would like to practice under the hood, I would be the safety pilot. I can the log PIC time. However, do I need to be up-to-date on my flying to be able to do that???
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You can torture the language a bit with this one, but, during the course of the flight, one or the other pilot is just a passenger and the PIC must be passenger-carrying current.

If you are not passenger current and your friend is, he can act as PIC. You may still act as safety pilot, but in an SIC role

Answering the question really requires more information than is presented.
 
Just get the landings. That will leave you no question of wether you are legal or not. If you crash though, what will you tell the FAA? (nothing probably)
 
FLpilot said:
Jace is wrong, to be a safety pilot you do indeed need a current medical. Also, when the foggles come off (ie landing), your safety pilot then becomes a passenger. You need the three bounces to be legal.

Remember, the safety pilot is acting PIC....not the person flying.
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But the FAR doesn't say that you have to have a medical. It leaves it omitted. Where does it specifically say that you have to have a medical?

This is kinda interesting. I'm sorry if I've given false information :) I really want to find out... I'm going to email my aviation law professor :D
 
JaceTheAce said:
But the FAR doesn't say that you have to have a medical. It leaves it omitted. Where does it specifically say that you have to have a medical?

This is kinda interesting. I'm sorry if I've given false information :) I really want to find out... I'm going to email my aviation law professor :D
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the safety pilot is *THE* PIC, as in responsible for the flight (unless of course the 'crew' decide that the safety pilot is not responsible such as in midlife's post). he's gotta have a current medical.
 
wheelsup said:
the safety pilot is *THE* PIC, as in responsible for the flight (unless of course the 'crew' decide that the safety pilot is not responsible such as in midlife's post).
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I think that that is a popular misconception. The guy flying the plane is *THE* PIC unless they decide that the safety pilot is responsibile for the flight, not vice versa. At least that is the way that it should be approached, 'cause then maybe the safety pilot would have a little better understanding of what they are really signing up for when they agree to be S.P. and PIC.
 
I think a lot of pic-logging safety pilots don't really understand that they have to be acting PIC in order to log it as such.
 
wheelsup said:
where does it say that?
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I'm heading for the door and don't have time right now to do a thorough look, so I stole this from MidlifeFlyer's FAQ page (thanks Mark!), just to get the discussion started:

Here's what the FAA Chief Legal Counsel said about it more than 10 years ago in 1992:

In your second question you ask "how shall two Private Pilots log their flight time when one pilot is under the hood for simulated instrument time and the other pilot acts as safety pilot?" The answer is the pilot who is under the hood may log PIC time for that flight time in which he is the sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft, provided he is rated for that aircraft. The appropriately rated safety pilot may concurrently log as second in command (SIC) that time during which he is acting as safety pilot.

The two pilots may, however, agree prior to initiating the flight that the safety pilot will be the PIC responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during the flight. If this is done, then the safety pilot may log all the flight time as PIC time in accordance with FAR 1.1 and the pilot under the hood may log, concurrently, all of the flight time during which he is the sole manipulator of the controls as PIC time in accordance with FAR 61.51(c)(2)(i). Enclosed please find a prior FAA interpretation concerning the logging of flight time under simulated instrument flight conditions. We hope that this interpretation will be of further assistance to you.
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