Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
ATC still has Radar coverage over most of the state, and gives clearances just like any other place. Some (very few) controllers add to the clearance "while in controlled airspace...." or "ATC advises cleared to...."
IFR Questions
- Thread starter Fly_Unity
- Start date
ATC still has Radar coverage over most of the state, and gives clearances just like any other place. Some (very few) controllers add to the clearance "while in controlled airspace...." or "ATC advises cleared to...."
Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
I would have recommended that you explore this before you were actually in the air.
hehe, this trip popped up on me before I had a chance to figure anything out. I did end up calling Center, and it looks like our biggest stumbling block is lack of canceling my flight plan. I have no way to contact ATC once I get below that altitude except the rare occasion a jetliner is flying overhead.
Maybe I'll give the FSDO a call and see what they say
tgrayson
New Member
Since you're in Class G, you can cancel your flight plan while still in IMC and in communication with ATC.
tgrayson
New Member
Not really. That guy didn't have a clearance at all and wasn't in communication with ATC. For Fly Unity's case, he would have a clearance and was in communication with ATC. Another aircraft wouldn't have a clearance during the same timeframe.
...until he cancels IFR while still IMC in class G airspace and then ATC gives someone else a clearance through the class G and some overzealous barney fife fed on the ground decides to make another example.
-mini
tgrayson
New Member
That could happen, but the point is that this case doesn't match the existing case law. There is a much better defense against a 91.13 charge.
juxtapilot
Snowflake
I thought you dont need an IFR clearance in class G... ATC can't clear you through it because it's uncontrolled... right?
tgrayson
New Member
Althought technically you don't need a clearance, the FAA has violated some pilots for departing into IMC in class G airspace without a clearance, claiming a 91.13 violation. As for enroute stuff, pilots who routinely operation in class G at cruising altitudes say that the distinction between controlled/uncontrolled is often ignored by ATC.
nosehair
Well-Known Member
Right. Flyunity is using the term "loosely", I suppose, like whatever ATC is loosely using the term by saying "when in controlled airspace".
The 91.13 violations that may arise, as in the example that Tgray is referencing, is an aircraft took off from an airport that was in class g, but had an instrument approach with class e starting at 7 or 1200, and he knew an IFR airplane was on an approach. So, yes, that is careless and reckless.
FlyUnity's sitation is totally different. It's letting down in class G in IMC to minimum IFR altitude in a non-airport environment.
juxtapilot
Snowflake
Interesting. I don't know how they would violate a pilot when the regs say that IFR clearance is needed prior to entering controlled airspace, and since class G is uncontrolled what can they do? The only thing I can think of right now is if somebody is shooting an instrument approach into an airport, but then doesnt the airport need to be in class E at least?
That's enough for me not to attempt it. I guess YMMV. I'd rather keep the IFR to the ground and if I can't, I'll go somewhere else.
No.
-mini
tgrayson
New Member
There are an infinite number of things the regulation don't prohibit, but could conceivably considered careless or reckless if you did them. I wouldn't take the regulations' failure to mention something as implicit permission.
Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
I agree IF your doing pleasure flights. However when your getting paid 50 K a year flying corporate, IF its safe, and legal, It might be the best option to do whatever you can to keep the boss happy, or he will find someone else who will do it.
I find it very safe, I just wanted to make sure it was legal. (BTW, I talked to another FAA FSDO guy, and he seen nothing wrong with it as long as I maintain the 2000 feet separation. (Another guy said I need to be clear of clouds because Im operating VFR if I dont have a clearance.) Im the only one that flies into this airport so hitting another aircraft isnt gonna happen most likely.
I believe the guy who got busted for IMC in class G without a clearance was operating below 700 AGL
tgrayson
New Member
He's wrong about that. Hazards of asking FSDO, but it is useful to know the variety of their opinions, because it's a clue as to when to keep your mouth shut.
Then he can find someone else that wants to operate IFR without a clearance to an airport without an instrument approach. No thanks.
IFR...no clearance...mountainous area...IMC...no instrument approach. Can anyone else see the error chain starting? The NTSB report being written?
If the boss has business that important at that location, I'm sure he or she can afford to have a basic GPS approach built to get you in legally and safely. $50k isn't that much...
Ah the big sky theory.
You realize FSDO employees don't have the legal authority to interpret regulations, right? Just because "Joe at the FSDO" said it's okay doesn't mean you can't be violated for it. And the defense of "joe at the FSDO said..." isn't going to hold any weight.
So? He was taking off, right? So now I have to maintain 1000' obstacle clearance when I take off or land? No, they don't apply for the purpose of taking off or landing. He was violated for being careless and/or reckless.
-mini
adk
Steals Hotel Toilet Paper
A lot of people don't understand the difference between 700AGL class G in Southern California and 14,500MSL class G in Wyoming. You don't need a clearance to fly IFR in Class G. Doing it when the airspace is congested is clearly careless and reckless, but plenty of people go up and just fool around in the clouds in middle of nowhere class G.
An unrelated question: You decide to take off from Jordan, MT (KJDN, smack in the middle of a large 14,500 class G) without a clearance to show some friends what flying in the clouds is like. What code do you use on your transponder?
planejay
Well-Known Member
Class G fly in the clouds if you want, of course be sure that you and the airplane are current and follow instrument flight rules and be careful not to hit anything. Surprised that fancy cirrus doesn't have some way to see through the clouds yet j/k. Be careful Mr. A.
-Jason
-Jason
AviatorGator
Well-Known Member
Actually, the new EVS camera optional on the cirrus perspective kind of lets you see through the clouds. Kind of.
Fly Unity, it sounds like your boss should invest in a satellite phone. That would enable you to cancel IFR, and file when it's time to leave, assuming you've figured out everything else discussed above...