IFR Questions

Fly_Unity

Fly_Unity

Well-Known Member
I live in the WY in the Rocky Mountains, my boss is building a dirt strip (5000 X 75) at one of his oil fields in MT.

1. How would you file an IFR flight plan to a private strip that is not in the FAA database? Can you give lat, longs as your destination?


2. This dirt strip is literally in the middle of nowhere. Class G airspace all the way to 14,500 MSL. Because of the lack of radar coverage, and mountains in the far away distance, ATC can only descend me down to 8,000 MSL, (Field elevation is 4,000 MSL) Is there anything against the regs that says I cant set up way-points in the Garmin 1000, and make my own GPS approach? It would include a MDA, and MAP, and missed procedures. I would do this without ATC services, and MDA would be at least 1000 AGL. Since this is class G airspace, would this be allowed? I wouldn't be worried about other traffic because of its remote location, and this would save my boss a 2 hour drive (the closest airport with an approach) if there was a small overcast which seems to happen in this area quite frequently. thoughts?
 
Fly_Unity said:
Can you give lat, longs as your destination?
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Yes, but the AIM recommends radial/distance for low altitudes.


Is there anything against the regs that says I cant set up way-points in the Garmin 1000, and make my own GPS approach?
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Sec. 91.175 Takeoff and landing under IFR.

(a) Instrument approaches to civil airports. Unless otherwise by the FAA, when it is necessary to use an instrument to a civil airport, each person operating an aircraft must use standard instrument approach procedure prescribed in part 97 of this for that airport. This paragraph does not apply to United States aircraft.

The best you can do is a cruise clearance.
 
If your boss is willing to fork over the money, the FAA will create IAPs for private airports. I'm fairly certain that he'd have to meet the basic requirements for runway lighting, etc., for that to happen though.
 
tgrayson said:
Yes, but the AIM recommends radial/distance for low altitudes.


Sec. 91.175 Takeoff and landing under IFR.

(a) Instrument approaches to civil airports. Unless otherwise by the FAA, when it is necessary to use an instrument to a civil airport, each person operating an aircraft must use standard instrument approach procedure prescribed in part 97 of this for that airport. This paragraph does not apply to United States aircraft.

The best you can do is a cruise clearance.
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whats a "Civil Airport"?

"""This paragraph does not apply to United States aircraft."""" what does this mean?
 
Best you could do is shoot a nearby approach, breakout, cancel and proceed VFR to your bushwacked field. Remember - legal is not always safe or intelligent...
 
500b said:
Best you could do is shoot a nearby approach, breakout, cancel and proceed VFR to your bushwacked field. Remember - legal is not always safe or intelligent...
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Closest Approach is 80 NM one way.

besides, I think your "legal" advice to scud run like that is much more dangerous in my opinion then to make your own conservative controlled approach. But... If its not legal, then I guess that leaves out that option. I was hoping it would be because of it being in Class G airspace.


Canceled 3 flights this past month (and diverted another time) because of a small overcast just below MVA. :banghead:
 
Fly_Unity said:
Canceled 3 flights this past month (and diverted another time) because of a small overcast just below MVA
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A cruise clearance may give you what you want. Can get you down to 1,000 feet above the nearest obstacle, unless that's a mountainous area.
 
tgrayson said:
A cruise clearance may give you what you want. Can get you down to 1,000 feet above the nearest obstacle, unless that's a mountainous area.
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It is a mountainous area, but they still cant get me down, Also IF the cruise clearance does get me down a little but further ( I never requested one), there is no way I can contact ATC to close my flight plan unless Im 4000 AGL, No phone, or cell service.

Anyone happen to know what a "Through clearance" is? maybe that is what I need along with a Cruise Clearance?
 
Fly_Unity said:
Also IF the cruise clearance does get me down a little but further ( I never requested one), there is no way I can contact ATC to close my flight plan unless Im 4000 AGL, No phone, or cell service.
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Why don't you call your local facility and discuss that with them? There is a way around most obstacles. (no pun intended.)


Anyone happen to know what a "Through clearance" is? maybe that is what I need along with a Cruise Clearance?
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Doesn't really apply. That's a means to let you land on an IFR flight plan, leaving it open for you to resume flight with the same clearance.
 
Fly_Unity said:
2. This dirt strip is literally in the middle of nowhere. Class G airspace all the way to 14,500 MSL. Because of the lack of radar coverage, and mountains in the far away distance, ATC can only descend me down to 8,000 MSL, (Field elevation is 4,000 MSL)
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What am I misasing here? If the class G goes to 14, 500, then ATC can't have any control at all below that altitude. If you're in class g, you can descend to 2000 agl in mountanous terrain.
 
1. How would you file an IFR flight plan to a private strip that is not in the FAA database? Can you give lat, longs as your destination?





Good Question...I like these kind of questions that make people think. And no, I do not have a "good" answer.
 
Barty said:
If your boss is willing to fork over the money, the FAA will create IAPs for private airports. I'm fairly certain that he'd have to meet the basic requirements for runway lighting, etc., for that to happen though.
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Fly Unity,

Barty is correct. I've looked into this as part of another project that I was working on. I began researching available land in my region to build an runway. Congratulations, on being able to find suitable land for your project [or, that of the person building it]. Out here where I live, it is very difficult to accomplish for several reasons that I won't get into here.

I learned quickly that I could spend a lot of time with architects and builders discussing the how-to until I was blue in the face. But, the first place I needed to spend some time asking questions, was with the governmental authorities that will authorize my flight operations. When I finally contacted the State of California, I found out that their requirements for the kind of flight operations that I was considering (turbine aircraft), typically went well beyond the requirements of my builder or architect.

Out here in California, I could get the permit to build as long as I followed their requirements. The problem with conducting specific kinds of flight operations out here, is that you also have to get the local governmental entities to approve what the State approves - city, county, etc. Because your traffic pattern my fly over certain areas, sometimes you have to get approval from city and county authorities to be legit.

There have been cases out here, where those with the financial resources ended up wasting a lot of capital and time, because they never got local authority approval for certain kinds of operations [night approaches for example]. The State might say yes. The county might say yes. But, the city politics in your area, might not be so friendly to IFR approaches! Be very aware of that before making the capital outlays.

Once you get ALL of the approvals [state and local] to build, confirm with the community that the type of flight operations that you are planning, are not in conflict with their ordinances. Once that's done, then the FAA can come in and literally help you build the IFR facilities [equipment] that you need to conduct IFR procedures.

Out here, they call them "Private Use Runways." I'm not sure what they call them in your neck of the woods.

Hope this helps and I wish you the best with the build - you are very fortunate to have this kind of flying available to you!
 
You don't need to get an approach made. It's in uncontrolled airspace, you don't need a clearance to fly there IFR, you don't even need to talk to anyone. Abide by the minimum altitudes for whatever type of terrain the area is and you can do whatever you want. Make your own waypoints to find the airport if you feel like it.

Is it safe (enough)? That's a whole different question.
 
Ralgha said:
It's in uncontrolled airspace, you don't need a clearance to fly there IFR, you don't even need to talk to anyone.
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True that you don't technically need a clearance, but it's prudent to have one, since the FAA has violated people for departing class G airports in IMC without a clearance, basing it on 91.13. They reasonably could do the same to someone arriving, since he would have no means of verifying that some other aircraft wasn't departing from or arriving at the same airport in IFR conditions.

However, he could probably cancel his IFR clearance once in class G airspace and escape any 91.13 accusations.
 
tgrayson said:
Why don't you call your local facility and discuss that with them? There is a way around most obstacles. (no pun intended.)
Doesn't really apply. That's a means to let you land on an IFR flight plan, leaving it open for you to resume flight with the same clearance.
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This morning I had the same thing happen, it was overcast 2000 AGL, tops at 7500 MSL (field is 4000). My boss really needed to get in so we decided to see if we could find a hole. ATC cleared me to MVA at 8000. I decided to ask ATC what a cruise clearance is, and he said "cleared for cruise 8000 feet or below" What does this mean? I asked for if I could descend IMC below 8000, he said I could IF I maintain own terrain clearance, AND I would come back up to 8000 to cancel (basically useless). My question: Do I need to have visual contact with the ground to provide my own terrain separation or can I provide my own ground separation down to 6000 MSL IF I know the highest ground level in my area is 4000 MSL?


Anyways, we did a hold till we found a hole pop up, but wasted 2 hours of fuel.
 
Fly_Unity said:
I decided to ask ATC what a cruise clearance is, and he said "cleared for cruise 8000 feet or below"
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I would have recommended that you explore this before you were actually in the air. :rolleyes:

On a cruise clearance, you're free to determine your minimum altitude any way you want. Your only limitation is 91.177, which says maintain 2,000 ft separation (mountainous) from any obstacle in a 4 nm radius of the airplane. If you wait until you're in IMC to figure out how to do that, it's too late. You really need to go out VFR and figure out some courses and stepdown fixes....VOR radials, DME fixes, GPS waypoints, etc. Some people use VFR charts to aid in this, but the charts caution you that they don't display all obstacles.

You're also free to execute any instrument procedure at the airport, including a visual or contact approach.
 
Fly_Unity said:
ATC cleared me to MVA at 8000. I decided to ask ATC what a cruise clearance is, and he said "cleared for cruise 8000 feet or below" What does this mean? I asked for if I could descend IMC below 8000, he said I could IF I maintain own terrain clearance, AND I would come back up to 8000 to cancel (basically useless).
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You're still messing with my head. In your original post, you said the class G goes to 14,500. How is ATC giving you any clearances below 15,000? Does the class G actually start at below 8000?
 
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