IFR oral .. help get me ready?

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
Ok, I'm gearing up for my checkride, again.

I'm not saying when my checkride is, as I honestly don't have a confirmation right now and because I don't want to jinx this, the fourth, try.

So, I thought maybe I could get a little help in brushing up for the oral. I thought I'd put up a list of stuff that I think of off the top of my head for the oral.

Please, throw up other questions/stuff - the more the better!

Thanks in advance.

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Currency: All VFR currency requirements (BFR, 3 landings in previous 90 days) and must have made, within six months from the date of the IA issuance, 6 approaches, practiced navigation through the use of navigational aids and practiced holding procedures. If this is not completed within the first 6 months the pilot has an additional 6 months to get current via the use of an appropriately rated safety pilot under simulated IFR in VFR conditions. If the seond 6 month block lapses the pilot must perfrom an IPC with an instructor, the FAA or designated examiner of the FAA.

Checks: Pitot Static; 24 mo., Altimeter; 24mo., Transponder; 24mo., ELT; 12mo., VOR check; 30 days.

Required equipment: Generators, Radios, Altimeter, Ball, Clock, Rate of Turn, Airspeed, DG - Navigational equipment - appropriate to the ground facilities to be used (absoloute minimum in most of lower 48 is a VOR) Transponer is require in all airspace above 10k MSL (not including I think 1,500 FT AGL where applicable) DME is required above FL240.

O2 is required above for required crew if flight is over 30 minutes at 12,500 to BNI 14,000. All crew must use 02 from 14k to BNI 15k regardless of time. 15k and above crew must use and pax must be provided 02. (check this one, a little rusty on it)

Required paperwork: AROW - Airworthiness, Registration, POH, W&B

IFR flight plan: required when operating on an IFR flight plan, when conditions are under VMC (in controlled airspace - E and above) or when operating in class A airspace or under special VFR at night. IFR flight plan can be cancelled anytime (outside class A) the pilot is in VMC/VFR and can maintain VFR.

NOTAMS: Notices to Airmen, three classes L, D, FDC. Local are for things not considered overly important to operations not based locally. Distant would be important items like navigationa aid status etc. FDC are changes to IAPs, etc. These can be obtained on ATIS, HIWAS, FSS, and the NOTAP.

Required information for planning: Fuel req., weather, known ATC delays, runway lengths, alternates/ives, takeoff/landing distances.

IFR fuel: enough fuel to intended point of landing then thereafter at normal cruise for 45 minutes - if an alternate is filed the flight must be able to fly to the intended point of landing, then the alternat and then 45 minutes additional at normal cruise.

Alternate requirement: 1-2-3 - from 1hr before to 1hr after ETA at the airport of intended landing the weather is forecast to be below 2,00ft ceilings and 3 miles vis an alternat must be filed. The alternat must be forcast at 2 miles vis and 800 ft for non-precision IAPs, 2 mile vis and 600ft for precision IAPs and if the airport has not IAP the weather must allow for descent from the MEA to landing under VFR.

MEA: Minimum enroute altitidue, MCA: Minimum Crossing Altitude, MOROCA: Minimum off route obstacle clearace altitiude, MSA minimum safe altitude (used in IAPs). MVA: minimum vectoring altitude.

Filing an IFR plan: Altitude should be initial requested (I use highest), 30 minutes prior to departure. Include no DP/STARS if you don't want those.

Weather: 3 things to form thunderstorm: moisture, lifting force and unstable air. Three phases of thunderstorm: forming, mature, dissapating.

Four types of ICE: Clear, Rime, Mixed, Frost. Clear is most dangerous. Ice will form only when the moisture is near freezing and the tempurate of the sufrace the moisture is striking is at or below freezing. Freezing rain produces the most rapid accumulation of ice. In a non ice-protected aircraft climb ot a higher altitude or change course to get out of the icing.

If a thunderstorm is inadvertantly penetrated dro pto VA and maintain ATTITUDE and fly straight through the storm. Accept airspeed and altitude fluctuations.

Low pressure systems consist of anit-clockwise, inwards, rising air. High pressure systems consist of clockwise, outwards, descending air. High pressure systems are usually good weather, low pressure systems are usuall poor weather. Stable airmasses will form steady precip, and stratiform clouds, little turbulence and poor visibility. Unstable airmasses will form showery precip, cumilform clouds, turbulence and good visibility.

Fog: Advection, steam, radiation, precipitation and upslope. Advection is a warm airmass (usually from over water) moving onto land. radiation is caused by the cooling of the earths surface at night. Precipitation is the evaporation of precipitation when it strikes the earths surface (usually asphalt, concrete, rock etc.) steam is warm air over cool water. Upslope is an airmass forced up a slope and cooled below its depoint resulting in condensation (fog).

WX charts: Prog charts are prognostics or forecasts all other charts are observations of current conditions. Can obtain weather enroute from HIWAS, or FSS.

Lost comm procedures: (Fast version) squawk 7600, do the last thing you were told by ATC, barring that or after completing that revert to your filed flight plan. Leave fixes at any ATC assigned EFCs and or plan to arrive at fixes/destnation at filed time. If flight plan cannot be maintained maintain any applicalble MEA, MOROCA, or MSA. If VFR is encountered maintain VFR and land as soon as practicable.

I know more but I think this is a good start. Any comments? Obviously, please correct any mistakes as I;m sure there are a few. Typing this up at work is probably not the best way to get things right, but hey I'm multitasking! Heh.

(edited to make corrections)
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
I just read through it quickly, and it looks pretty good. Except that:

ELT check is 12 calendar months.

And the O2 requirements (for a non-pres. a/c) are:

Below 12,500- N/A
Above 12,500 but below 14k- Only needed by crew after 30 min.
Above 14k- Crew must use at all times
Above 15k- Passengers must be provided

Lost Coms:

Altitude- Highest of your: MEA, Expected, Assigned
Route- Last of: Assigned, Vectored, Expected, Filed
...I think thats what you meant.

Also some questions for you:

1.) What happens if you get water in the static system (i.e. what are the instrument indications)?

2.) How could you track directly to a VOR using solely DME?

3.) Is it legal for you, on an IFR flight plan, to take off in VFR conditions and THEN do a VOR check?

4.) What are the required/recommended reports to ATC?

5.) Can you wait until you get to DH to decide whether to go missed, and go slightly below as you go missed, or do you have to "bounce off" the DH (i.e. not going below whatsoever)?

I'll leave it at that...I'm sure there will be plenty of other questions thrown out there...Good luck on your ride!
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
[ QUOTE ]
1.) What happens if you get water in the static system (i.e. what are the instrument indications)?

[/ QUOTE ]

In terms of a blockage?
The VSI would "freeze."
The ASI will be accurate at the altitude (or pressure area) when/where the blocakge occured otherwise it will read faster when descending/below the altitude where the blockage occured and slow when climbing/above the altitude where the blockage occured.
The altimeter would read higher than normal as you descended below the altitude at which the blockage occcured and lower than normal above the altitude at which the blockage occcured. In other words it would freeze as well.
(Need to really check these)

[ QUOTE ]
2.) How could you track directly to a VOR using solely DME?

[/ QUOTE ]

Turn to roughly the direction you believe will take you to the station. Then fine tune using the DME unti the DME displays the fastest "countdown" - you would then be heading dirctly towards the station.

[ QUOTE ]
3.) Is it legal for you, on an IFR flight plan, to take off in VFR conditions and THEN do a VOR check?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to say no. The VOR check is required to file/fly on an IFR plan. And because you are on an IFR plan (but simply happen to be in VFR) you can't do it. However, technically you could do it on a visual approach after the IFR has been canceled in preparing for the next flight. Course I'm probably wrong but I'm sticking with this answer.


[ QUOTE ]
4.) What are the required/recommended reports to ATC?

[/ QUOTE ]

Anytime your ETA to a fix will vary by more than two minutes, all compulsory reporting points, unforecast weahter, navigational/equipment failure ... I think there are a couple more.

[ QUOTE ]
5.) Can you wait until you get to DH to decide whether to go missed, and go slightly below as you go missed, or do you have to "bounce off" the DH (i.e. not going below whatsoever)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. It's called a Decision Height meaning you make the decision there. If at DH you are applying power to go missed you are then on the MAP segment and technically it has no MDA/DH. However there are two camps of thought on this - some people say no, some say yes.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
---
"Yes. It's called a Decision Height meaning you make the decision there. If at DH you are applying power to go missed you are then on the MAP segment and technically it has no MDA/DH. However there are two camps of thought on this - some people say no, some say yes."
It's great to think it through in advance, but just be sure that on the ride you keep it simple unless you REALLY know your stuff (even then, KISS it). i.e. the answer is 'Yes.' If the examiner wants more info, he or she will ask.


"I'm going to say no. The VOR check is required to file/fly on an IFR plan. And because you are on an IFR plan (but simply happen to be in VFR) you can't do it. However, technically you could do it on a visual approach after the IFR has been canceled in preparing for the next flight. Course I'm probably wrong but I'm sticking with this answer."
It is illegal to take off on an IFR flight plan if the VOR recievers have not been checked within the last 30 days. If they are current, you can do the check once airborne and be legal for another 30 days.
---

I'm sure you've already read through all of it, but there are some great threads in the Checkride forum. Try out some of the links in the threads; you'll find TONS of hypothetical questions that really make you think about what you know and what the rules are.

When I studied, I printed out the questions from different sites (the links are in the Checkride forum). I went through them with a highlighter and looked up the ones I didn't know. I skimmed the FARs and the AIM, read through the ASA oral book a few times, and bought 'Instrument Flight Review' from the Flight Bag Series. It's a tiny book but it's loaded with just about everything you need to know. Some of the info is either different from how I learned it (though still correct), or not there (weather sources in particuliar). I just wrote those in and studied it all.

The biggest thing is to keep it simple, and use neumonics for the route memorization:
Required reports: TULSAHAM
TAS 5% / 10kts
Unable to climb 500fpm
Loss of NAV/COMM and assistance required
Safety of flight (unforecast wx)
Altitude leaving for new altitude
Hold fix and altitude, and when leaving hold
Altitude chang when VFR on top
Missed approach

Non radar: FOE
Final approach fix inbound
Outer marker inbound
ETE off by 3min or more

Required instruments (in addition to VFR day and night): GARBCARD
Generator / alt
Attitude indicator
Radios for flight
Ball
Clock
Altimeter
Rate of turn
Directional gyro

TOMATO FLAMES for VFR day; FLAPS for VFR night.

I wrote a quick thing about my ride here if you are interested: http://www.geocities.com/n714zl/Instrument_Checkride.html

Since you have taken the ride 3 times, if it is with the same examiner you already know what to concentrate on. Good luck.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
[ QUOTE ]
Since you have taken the ride 3 times, if it is with the same examiner you already know what to concentrate on. Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

NO. No no no no no. I've never taken the ride.


The reason this is the "fourth try" is because the first three times have been cenceled. First try: my CFII disappeared before I got my sign-off (Dec. 7, 2002). Second try: we found a crack in the tail requiring major work to fix (Jan 18, 2003). Third try: was tentativly scheduled for mid-March and a gear problem 86'd that (two weeks ago or so).
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
NO. No no no no no. I've never taken the ride.

[/ QUOTE ]

Suuuuurrrrre you haven't. It's okay 602. We understand.


Kidding!

GOOD LUCK and (as you know) mine won't be too far behind yours!!
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
Remember, you can always file your flight plan, depart VFR, and then pick up a clearance once you're airborne....that's the way we edumucated instrument pilots do it!!!
.

Of course, remember to let Ground, or Clearance Delivery know what you're doing ahead of time, and that you're departing VFR. Otherwise, they'll spit that clearance at you before you can depart!!!
 

davetheflyer

New Member
Here's a good trick question:

When planning an IFR flight, what do you have to take into consideration about winds aloft forecasts?

















Hint: Winds aloft are reported in what kind of direction and courses on Enroute Charts are given in what kind of heading?
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! Teach' I know this one! Oooh! Mista Kotta!

(Bad Horseshack impression)
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
[ QUOTE ]
When planning an IFR flight, what do you have to take into consideration about winds aloft forecasts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Forecasts are given in true direction, airways are alligned magnetically.
 

davetheflyer

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Forecasts are given in true direction, airways are alligned magnetically.

[/ QUOTE ]

ding ding ding We have a winner! You may take any prize from the top shelf.
 

ananoman

New Member
Be careful about the difference between 'Shall' and 'Should' when reading the FAR/AIM.

91.183 IFR Radio Communications
The pic of each aircraft operated under ifr in controlled airspace Shall have a continous watch maintained on the appropriate frequency and SHALL report by radio asap-
a) time and altitude of passing each designated reporting point, or the reporting points specified by atc, except that while under radar control, only the passing of those reporting points specifically requested by atc need be reported;
b) any unforcast weather conditions
c) any info related to the safety of flight

In Section 5-3-2 of the AIM it talks about position reporting, which mostly deals with flights in a non-radar environment.

Section 5-3-3 is Additional Reports
a. The following reports SHOULD be made to atc or a fss without a specific atc request:
1. At all times.
a) when vacating any previously assigned altitude for a newly assigned altitude.
b) when an altitude change will be made if vfr-on-top
c) when unable to climb/descend at a rate of at least 500 fpm
d) when approach has been missed
e)change in average TAS of 5% or 10 kts from that filed in flight plan
f) time and altitude upon reaching a holding fix or point to which cleared
g)when leaving any holding fix or point
h)loss of vor, tacan, adf, comm capability, etc.
i)any info related to the safety of flight.

The AIM is advisory in nature, it is not regulatory per se, although if you do something stupid and are violated it will be shown that you deviated from accepted practice.

Most of this stuff is taken care of when you read back a clearance you have been given. It is stuff that ATC expects, but it is not mandatory. I have yet to tell atc that my TAS varies by 5% or 10 knots, and I usually don't ask to slow down prior to starting an approach. I would only do this if I knew from listening that someone was behind me or if I was told to maintain a certain speed. The same thing for 'the time and altitude upon reaching a holding fix or point'. If atc has radar and gives you a hold, they can see the time and altitude when you reach the holding fix. If it is busy and you tell them, it is evident that they do not care to know this when you call them.

Those are the only 2 reports that I regularly omit, as most of the others are expected by ATC and are just common sense.
 

Ophir

Well-Known Member
Here are two that our examiner askes everyone here.


You are flying along in IMC and established on the ILS 6 inbound for landing at Gunnison, CO, GUC. They have suddenly issued a SIGMET's Sierra, Tango, and Zulu. The missed approach point is 2.4NM from the runway end. You pop out of the clouds at the missed and you have the runway in sight, great. You continue towards the runway and a 737 pulls out in front of you. What should you do?


Another one that he is really into:
You are approaching Gunnison. You are in VMC and airport is report a ceiling of 200ft and 5SM visibility. However the cloud that is over the airport is not over the approach end of the runway. You are flying inbound on the ILS 6, at 500ft and you can see that the ceiling over the runway is 200ft, but you can't quite see under the clouds to the runway. Can you continue?
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
You are flying along in IMC and established on the ILS 6 inbound for landing at Gunnison, CO, GUC. They have suddenly issued a SIGMET's Sierra, Tango, and Zulu. The missed approach point is 2.4NM from the runway end. You pop out of the clouds at the missed and you have the runway in sight, great. You continue towards the runway and a 737 pulls out in front of you. What should you do?


[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that is the single stupidest scenario I have ever heard. First of all, there are no SIGMETS Sierra, Tango, and Zulu. Those are AIRMETS. Secondly, missed approach point on an ILS is typically DH, not 2.4 miles from the threshold. And if a 737 pulls out in front of you, what the hell else would you do but go missed? Land on it? Get tossed on your back by its wake turb. as you're flaring? Either you just pulled that out of thin air, or this examiner is a royal ass.

Wow, then I read further...
[ QUOTE ]
You are approaching Gunnison. You are in VMC and airport is report a ceiling of 200ft and 5SM visibility. However the cloud that is over the airport is not over the approach end of the runway. You are flying inbound on the ILS 6, at 500ft and you can see that the ceiling over the runway is 200ft, but you can't quite see under the clouds to the runway. Can you continue?


[/ QUOTE ]

That makes no sense. The cloud that is over the airport isnt over the approach end of the runway, but you can't see the runway? Give me a break....But, why not, I've got nothing better to do. You can continue all you want. At DH, all you have to have is one of the ten things in sight, and the minimum required FLIGHT visibility. Someone needs to come up with some realistic scenarios. These are the two stupidest, most unlikely, unrealistic hypotheticals I've ever heard.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
Not to be a jackass or anything... but if the examiner throws one of these things at you the best answer is not 'These are the two stupidest, most unlikely, unrealistic hypotheticals I've ever heard.'.

#1 - declare and land on the taxiway or an adjacent runway depending on the practacility of going missed. I definately have to agree with ESF on this one however; IF the conditions are such that surviving the missed is questionable, you damn well better let ATC know you will be a full stop well in advance (basically you should already have declared, allowing you to go below DH if needed). This would also prevent anything from possibly getting in your way.

#2 - No, you must go missed if you are at DH and do not have the runway regardless of flight conditions. If you have the ALS you can go down to 100' HAT, then go missed if you STILL can't see the runway.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I misread the second scenario, and edited my post to answer that one. But I still stand by my description. And, if an examiner came up to me and asked me that first one- that would be my answer. Whats he going to do? Rip up my tickets?
 

Buzo

Well-Known Member
You can take off IFR without a current VOR check. The VOR's only need to be checked if you are using them for navigation under IFR. If you take off and are being vectored you can check your VOR's prior to using them in that flight.
 

Ophir

Well-Known Member
Well ESF, i can see that you attitude would get in the way. Is this how you fly too? Would seriously question the examiner like you say you would? I would like to sit there and watch take a deep breath, swallow an then struggle for the answer. The test he puts people through is to think outside the box. And in this situation you would have to. The answers he was looking for was, if you had flown beyond the DH/MDA and suddenly found that you couldn't land, how could possibly fly the missed because the missed has to commence at the DH or MDH. In the case of Gunnison if you fly beyond the missed and then execute the missed, if you were in a low performance plane, you may hit the mountain to the south of the runway. So what do you do? Fly the published depature procedure. Or, land on a taxiway. It is legal to do so.

You are right on FLIGHT visibilty being the determinant therefore what he was looking for on the second question. Most people mistake what they are reporting on the ground to validate going below the DH/MDH.


Oh, and chill out too. His name is Lynn French and I am sure he would love to take you on a checkride.
 
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