IFR lost comm question.

Holocene

Well-Known Member
Say you lose all radios immediately after takeoff...

You should continue on, and fly the entire route you filed in the flight plan???

I'm reading a book that says this is so, but there are no possible methods of simply returning to land after squawking 7600???
 

unclenobby

Well-Known Member
Say you lose all radios immediately after takeoff...

You should continue on, and fly the entire route you filed in the flight plan???

I'm reading a book that says this is so, but there are no possible methods of simply returning to land after squawking 7600???
Follow the AVEF rule if in IFR conditions - it allows ATC to better coordinate seperation if they have an idea of what you will do vs having no idea what you intend on doing.
If VFR continue VFR and land as soon as practicable.
 

Holocene

Well-Known Member
Follow the AVEF rule if in IFR conditions - it allows ATC to better coordinate seperation if they have an idea of what you will do vs having no idea what you intend on doing.
If VFR continue VFR and land as soon as practicable.
Thanks.

If VFR, I assume "land as soon as practicable" means land anywhere, even the field you just departed?
 

unclenobby

Well-Known Member
Thanks.

If VFR, I assume "land as soon as practicable" means land anywhere, even the field you just departed?
You could continue to your destination VFR....probably not the best idea but you can. If I departed on an IFR plan, lost comms and was able to maintain VFR I would get the a/c to a safe altitude and location, trouble shoot the problem and if that didn't work follow the procedures for an approach and landing at a suitable field under lost comm.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
I'd put 7700 in my transponder and land at the nearest suitable, to include where I took off from. It's an emergency and the PIC should be able to make the call to suit his needs. My need would be to get my butt on the ground ASAP. ATC would appreciate that, I'm sure. FAR's be damned....
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
I'd put 7700 in my transponder and land at the nearest suitable, to include where I took off from. It's an emergency and the PIC should be able to make the call to suit his needs. My need would be to get my butt on the ground ASAP. ATC would appreciate that, I'm sure. FAR's be damned....
I agree, flying on for 3hrs on the AVEF model when you could do a quick 180 and put it on the deck is insane, and dangerous.
 

PanJet

Well-Known Member
I'd put 7700 in my transponder and land at the nearest suitable, to include where I took off from. It's an emergency and the PIC should be able to make the call to suit his needs. My need would be to get my butt on the ground ASAP. ATC would appreciate that, I'm sure. FAR's be damned....
Absolutely. I would definitely do this if my flight plan was to a much busier airspace. ATC would hate you for knowingly flying two or three hours in the soup to cause a nice big mess for them to deal with. Turn around, ask for for forgiveness, and plead 91.3(b). Good question.
 

Orange Anchor

New Member
Say you lose all radios immediately after takeoff...

You should continue on, and fly the entire route you filed in the flight plan???

I'm reading a book that says this is so, but there are no possible methods of simply returning to land after squawking 7600???
1st what are you flying and what airport are you departing from? IFR or VFR?
see FAR 91.185 and the AIM section 4 specifically 6-4-1

http://tinyurl.com/4tr59r

http://tinyurl.com/4rx53u

single engine out of small airport VFR w/ tower.. pull up, squawk 7600 and land at departure airport
single engine out of large airport VFR w/ tower.. same as above except toss up.. out of ATL and PDK and other airports avail.. land there.

IFR.. see FARs and AIM.
 

unclenobby

Well-Known Member
I agree, flying on for 3hrs on the AVEF model when you could do a quick 180 and put it on the deck is insane, and dangerous.
What if you departed into IMC and your departure runway has an ODP? Would you do a quick 180 in the valley in IMC (hypothetical) or continue to a known safe altitude and guaranteed terrain clearance and then decide? Do you have an instrument approach to the runway you are turning back to or is it blind luck? Do you have the approach loaded or dialed in and the plate out in front of you? Has the appraoch been briefed? Will you even recapture the approach course? Can you do all this and still fly the plane?

A quick 180 now sounds now like the insane and dangerous option. There is no catchall response - sticking with the rules offers a great guide in a moment of stress...exercising the "PIC has the ultimate responsibility and can deviate from the regs..." rule is perfectly fine also, but diverging from known procedures leads you into the unknown, or the side of a mountain.
 

deek

New Member
Ok I just got my instrument ticket so I should know this. If in VFR, land and land anywhere. If in IMC, you have different requirements for altitude and heading. For altitude its the HIGHEST of MEA, Expected (given from ATC), or assigned (given from ATC). for Heading its Assigned, Vectored, Expected and Filed, in that order, and you can fly your filed flight plan and go to a location from which an approach can begin (IAF). Now I'm not clear as to what is the different from assigned as opposed to vectored. And what happens if say cler. delv. gives you an initial heading to fly after take off and you loose comms right after departure, do you fly your assigned heading forever, or do you go to your filed and when?
 

unclenobby

Well-Known Member
Ok I just got my instrument ticket so I should know this. If in VFR, land and land anywhere. If in IMC, you have different requirements for altitude and heading. For altitude its the HIGHEST of MEA, Expected (given from ATC), or assigned (given from ATC). for Heading its Assigned, Vectored, Expected and Filed, in that order, and you can fly your filed flight plan and go to a location from which an approach can begin (IAF). Now I'm not clear as to what is the different from assigned as opposed to vectored. And what happens if say cler. delv. gives you an initial heading to fly after take off and you loose comms right after departure, do you fly your assigned heading forever, or do you go to your filed and when?
Usually the clearance is vectors - direct etc. e.g. Cleared to XXX apt, via radar vectors, direct......, maintain 2000 expt 4000 10 mins after departure.
ATC then assigns you 150 and 2000 - If you were to loose comms after T/O I would fly 150 to 2000 and then direct to the next wypt assigned at 4000. If given a clearance limit fly to the limit as assigned and then as filed to your destination using the highest of the MEA rule for altitude.
 

deek

New Member
I fly out of an uncontrolled airfield so I have to call up ATC to get my IFR clearence, and they will usually say "upon departure fly heading 270 climb to 2000' and contact approach". Well what if im wheels up and flying 270 more or less in the pattern (at my airport anyway) and I loose comms. Do I continue to fly 270 till the wings fall off, or do I just go to as filed and continue on my way? (which I assume is what I do) and when do I do this? Say I want to go in a direction other than 270, say my flight plan is to the south, when do I make the turn to the south? I had said when I reach my assigned altitue I would turn to get on to my as filed plan.
 

unclenobby

Well-Known Member
I fly out of an uncontrolled airfield so I have to call up ATC to get my IFR clearence, and they will usually say "upon departure fly heading 270 climb to 2000' and contact approach". Well what if im wheels up and flying 270 more or less in the pattern (at my airport anyway) and I loose comms. Do I continue to fly 270 till the wings fall off, or do I just go to as filed and continue on my way? (which I assume is what I do) and when do I do this? Say I want to go in a direction other than 270, say my flight plan is to the south, when do I make the turn to the south? I had said when I reach my assigned altitue I would turn to get on to my as filed plan.
Assuming in IFR, I would fly 270 to 2000, then on course (AVEF) and appropriate altitude (max of MEA). If 270 to 2000 is hazerdous then obviously do whatever is necessary for obstruction clearance.
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
It can be an emergency, however if you squawk 7700 they may assume they should be able to speak with you. 7600 is less ambiguous.
 
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