IFR Filing ?

[Tiptank]

In my neck of the woods I always file airport to airport without including the destination IAF in the route and I always get "cleared as filed".

It is an interesting idea that I may consider from now on though. I'd like to hear from some ATC guys on the pro/cons.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

The discussion about filing to an IAF (or at least including it as a waypoint in the flight plan) is an argument about preference not regulation.

The main theories supporting it are (1) having an IAF pre-selected in case of lost Comm and you need to rely on the very last option in the reg and (2) part of engaging in a complete preflight planning exercise.

I think the two main theories rejecting it are (1) whatever merit it may have once had in a time when radar contact was sparse has long gone and (2) even as a planning exercise it makes no sense since choosing an IAF in advance assumes the winds won't change, not exactly a given in real weather.

You pick your preference and go with it.

 

[Ian_J]

The person responsible for my CFI-I training is hell bent on forcing me to teach this. Which is why I'm doing my own damned research. I appreciate the feedback.

Any chance he learned to fly in the military?

 

[dustoff17]

Any chance he learned to fly in the military?

Exactly my first thought! You beat me to this question......

 

[Roger Roger]

Had an ATL controller on the Jumpseat. Happened to talk about this. He said "We'd be $h!tting bricks if a plane held until it's ETA going to ATL."

I kind of think I'd rather go off the reservation and land at Podunk Hills Municipal than continuing to blunder into ATLs airspace with no comms.

 

[Hiboglossi]

I think the two main theories rejecting it are (1) whatever merit it may have once had in a time when radar contact was sparse has long gone and (2) even as a planning exercise it makes no sense since choosing an IAF in advance assumes the winds won't change, not exactly a given in real weather.
.

That's what I thought when I saw this thread. How would you know for sure which approach you would get upon arrival? There are plenty of times the wind changes by the time you get there or is different from forecast.

Before this thread I had never heard of including an IAF in the filed flight plan. Admittedly, I did my instrument training in a /G aircraft.

 

[FM_Weasel]

Routing over the IAF is likely to be amended en-route in many parts of the U.S. anyway. By the time you got to the vicinity of your arrival airport, ATC may have removed that fix from your routing and cleared you via direct or something else. I think filing the IAF is pointless because I don't think it's likely to remain in your clearance for the duration of your trip.

Once your clearance has been amended, ATC (terminal ATC at least) can't see what you filed originally so we wouldn't know that you file over a particular IAF anyway. We'll just see what you were most recently cleared to do, or we'll know what you've been cleared to do because our agreements with adjacent facilities mandate that you be sent a certain way to airports under our control.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I guess I can make up my own terrain clearance etc., if cleared direct destination, NORDO, and IMC.

 

[FM_Weasel]

I guess I can make up my own terrain clearance etc., if cleared direct destination, NORDO, and IMC.

Guidance is available.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Guidance is available.

I am aware of these things. I will still take a terminal route over using them, though.

As Bill Tindall would say, "Just call me 'Aunt Emma.'"

 

[hammerhat]

Here in the Midwest I will very rarely have my direct to route changed. Other parts of the country when I fly I get re routed all the time.

In the north east I almost never get direct clearance. Yet it never includes the IAF, maybe because they usually vector to final unless specifically asked not to.

 

[killbilly]

In the north east I almost never get direct clearance. Yet it never includes the IAF, maybe because they usually vector to final unless specifically asked not to.

That's pretty much how it is here, too. (Mid Atlantic.) To make my life easier, I typically look up the recently cleared routes and file whatever's there that most closely matches my desired route/destination. Keeps things simpler.

 

[mshunter]

91.185 (3) (ii) covers the scenario of the clearance limit not being an IAF:

§91.185 IFR operations: Two-way radio communications failure

(3) Leave clearance limit.

(ii) If the clearance limit is not a fix from which an approach begins, leave the clearance limit at the expect-further-clearance time if one has been received, or if none has been received, upon arrival over the clearance limit, and proceed to a fix from which an approach begins and commence descent or descent and approach as close as possible to the estimated time of arrival as calculated from the filed or amended (with ATC) estimated time en route

/ thread

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I am aware of these things. I will still take a terminal route over using them, though. As Bill Tindall would say, "Just call me 'Aunt Emma.'"

Has that fancy RJ spoiled you so much that you're scared to use a low altitude chart now?

 

[dustoff17]

When I saw the OP's question, I was familiar with his instructor's thought process on this one. Until flying corporate (err, rather CIVILIAN), I always filed to an IAF (of course, I had to). I also filed a point w/in 200nm of destination but to be honest, I can't remember where I picked this up.

And in response to some of the points raised here; when used, the IAF was selected based on weather/winds at the destination at ETA. The preferred IAF was on an approach that included a circle approach. This afforded me the opportunity to use the wind favored runway if conditions changed prior to arrival. Also, while it is true that ATC can and will change filed routing to preferred while an aircraft is enroute, the idea behind filing is not to anticipate the needs of ATC but rather to let them know what MY plans are should I lose comms.

Now, I file direct and try to select an ATC preferred arrival/departure/route (if available).

 

[Ian_J]

I also filed a point w/in 200nm of destination but to be honest, I can't remember where I picked this up.

That's in the GP.

 

[Ian_J]

When I saw the OP's question, I was familiar with his instructor's thought process on this one. Until flying corporate (err, rather CIVILIAN), I always filed to an IAF (of course, I had to)

Also, I can't remember if the GP changed or not, but you don't have to file to an IAP anymore. The GP gives you the option of The identifier of the nearest appropriate Initial Approach Fix, Navigational Aid, first point of intended landing, or published fix which most clearly establishes the route of flight to the destination.

 

[dustoff17]

That's in the GP.

Thanks, I was pretty sure I hadn't dreamt that......

Also, I can't remember if the GP changed or not, but you don't have to file to an IAP anymore. The GP gives you the option of The identifier of the nearest appropriate Initial Approach Fix, Navigational Aid, first point of intended landing, or published fix which most clearly establishes the route of flight to the destination.

I'm sure things have changed over the years, I've been out a while.......I DO miss it though.........

 

[bc2209]

Any chance he learned to fly in the military?

Nope all civilian.

 

[dustoff17]

Nope all civilian.

Bet HE had a military instructor and is just passing it along......