Because when the Zombie Apocalypse comes, and it's hard IMC from the fires of the dead, and there's a Bonanza A-36, you're going to want some skillz.
If you could change a manuver in the PTS?
- Thread starter Whatusername
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Because when the Zombie Apocalypse comes, and it's hard IMC from the fires of the dead, and there's a Bonanza A-36, you're going to want some skillz.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Or say a 135 VFR job.
Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
It helps weed out some of the "wanna be pilots". If getting an Instrument rating is to difficult, then maybe they shouldn't get paid to fly.
Instrument ratings seems to make one more professional about his/her flying, improve their situation awareness, and improve their task management, even if they never get in a plane capable of flying IFR.
A150K
Well-Known Member
Even if it had instruments, I imagine he's more concerned with looking for powerlines
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
I'm not talking about 135 VFR ops.... I'm really sure insurance companies would go for that.... There are, however, flying jobs that need to be done VFR that don't involve the direct movement of persons or property. You have banner towing, traffic watch, fish spotting, pipeline, forms of aerial survey, AG, glider towing, (actually, a qualified private pilot can now be compensated for glider towing), glider CFI... All this can be done in basic VFR only aircraft with minimal equipment. Most new pilots jump right into the instrument rating and don't spend enough time learning to be good VFR pilots which breeds average instrument pilots...
Just because you hold a VFR restricted commercial doesn't make you a "wannabe pilot"... If a pilot can make a living (and I know those who do) how does THAT make them a "wannabe"? In fact, I know a banner tower with a VFR restricted commercial who makes a helluva a lot more than your average regional FO who went from zero to hero with all their ratings.
Just because you hold a VFR restricted commercial doesn't make you a "wannabe pilot"... If a pilot can make a living (and I know those who do) how does THAT make them a "wannabe"? In fact, I know a banner tower with a VFR restricted commercial who makes a helluva a lot more than your average regional FO who went from zero to hero with all their ratings.
ILS37R
Well-Known Member
Heck, I know of a 60,000+ HR powerline patrol pilot who never got his IR.
For my part: I'd like for spin training to part of a private training regimen, if not specifically in the PTS. It's more that I want my student to have recovered from a spin before I send him off to do maneuvers solo. I'm less keen on the idea of it being tested by a DPE, especially as many are not necessarily current on all the planes they're rated in, and not all planes that could be used for the test are spin-certified.
Similarly, I think actual landings on a turf/unimproved strip/beach should be in the training, as well. Helps not only with those fields, but also preparedness for emergency, off-field landings.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
Can it do a chandelle?
Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
IMO, flight training isn't complete until you're instrument ready. Instrument training really smooths out the rough edges that the private pilot will have. Just because you never plan to use those funny instruments doesn't mean you shouldn't be proficient. Taking pax has nothing to do with it. If I ruled the world, everybody would need an IFR rating to fly.
A150K
Well-Known Member
I agree that it makes one a better pilot (sure made me alot smoother), but not every private pilot out there is a career pilot/desires to be chuck yeager. Why make it harder/more expensive on those who just wanna fly for fun?
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
"You're not a REAL pilot til you get an instrument rating" It's all just a sales pitch to get pilots to dump a buttload of money into an instrument rating or justify your own reasons for getting one. The reality is, it DOESNT make flying any safer. In most GA singles it actually opens the door to more risk. Sure, you spend a lot of time learning to mitigate that risk. Most pilots these days have a hard enough time getting their three takeoffs & landings in, let alone keeping up their instrument currency. Let alone, their proficiency.
Sure, the relationship of pitch, power & airspeed is perfected, the CFI-I gets to fill in the gaps about radio NAV, radio communications are at a new level and you go deeper into weather (most of which you have to stay out of anyway....) The truth is, a pilot can gain this kind of insight from any number of operational bubbles they might be in. It's just not handed to them in a nice-neat package by a CFI-I, they have to go figure it out for themselves.
You don't think a banner tower would have to have a good grasp on pitch, power & airspeed, be able to talk their way through Class B at 500 agl through departures & arrivals or know read weather reports and VFR wx mins like the back of their hand??? I know quite a few instrument rated pilots who would have a really though time with that...
It all depends on your goals... As a career pilot you pretty much need it, unless you find your own little niche that you're happy with. I think its great that you actually CAN get a commercial without an IR. With all the regulating and restricting, its nice to know these still something out there you can do. And it doesn't make a commercial pilot any less professional (ohhh, there's that word again...) Do any of you honestly think you're better, all dressed up in the suit with stripes on your shoulders, than Billy Bob in his oil stained flight suit who's about to go spray a field? The the REAL irony is, guess who probably earns a bigger paycheck, has a better QOL and probably has a helluva lot more fun doing their job.
We all take our own paths and its nice to still have a choice in how we go about our ultimate goal. Some pilots get off on having a crap-ton of letters on their certificates. Others do it because everyone told them they HAD TO. The reality is, you are incredibly limited to what you can do as a career pilot if you don't go through the whole process. But some where out there is a pilot on a ranch with his own Champ. With just a Commercial and with out getting a IR, he can charge for the service of inspecting the fence-lines of the other near-by ranchers to earn a few bucks on the side. Same story for local aerobatic rides or aerial photograpgy... Why add more cost and additional regulation, when is simply not needed?
Flame suit on, aaaannnnd GO!
Sure, the relationship of pitch, power & airspeed is perfected, the CFI-I gets to fill in the gaps about radio NAV, radio communications are at a new level and you go deeper into weather (most of which you have to stay out of anyway....) The truth is, a pilot can gain this kind of insight from any number of operational bubbles they might be in. It's just not handed to them in a nice-neat package by a CFI-I, they have to go figure it out for themselves.
You don't think a banner tower would have to have a good grasp on pitch, power & airspeed, be able to talk their way through Class B at 500 agl through departures & arrivals or know read weather reports and VFR wx mins like the back of their hand??? I know quite a few instrument rated pilots who would have a really though time with that...
It all depends on your goals... As a career pilot you pretty much need it, unless you find your own little niche that you're happy with. I think its great that you actually CAN get a commercial without an IR. With all the regulating and restricting, its nice to know these still something out there you can do. And it doesn't make a commercial pilot any less professional (ohhh, there's that word again...) Do any of you honestly think you're better, all dressed up in the suit with stripes on your shoulders, than Billy Bob in his oil stained flight suit who's about to go spray a field? The the REAL irony is, guess who probably earns a bigger paycheck, has a better QOL and probably has a helluva lot more fun doing their job.
We all take our own paths and its nice to still have a choice in how we go about our ultimate goal. Some pilots get off on having a crap-ton of letters on their certificates. Others do it because everyone told them they HAD TO. The reality is, you are incredibly limited to what you can do as a career pilot if you don't go through the whole process. But some where out there is a pilot on a ranch with his own Champ. With just a Commercial and with out getting a IR, he can charge for the service of inspecting the fence-lines of the other near-by ranchers to earn a few bucks on the side. Same story for local aerobatic rides or aerial photograpgy... Why add more cost and additional regulation, when is simply not needed?
Flame suit on, aaaannnnd GO!
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
I'm one of those guys who will say "you're not a real pilot until you have your IFR". It isn't about money, it's all about safety. That being said, there are levels.
IFR rating - not much, but a good start
IFR current - better, but still lots of room for improvement
IFR proficient - very safe
Lots of those GA accidents are with people in one of the first 2 categories.
rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
I'll bet these guys are super thankful they've spent a bunch of time shooting partial panel approaches recently to stay "safe". Meh, who am I kidding, they're probably posers and not "real pilots".
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
Oh yeah! I almost forgot about Airshow pilots! The only way they can actually be compensated for doing shows is to have a commercial cert.
Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
Ever met someone who regretted getting an instrument rating? or wished that they had the time and money back that they spent on it? I didnt think so. I mean its not that hard. I had students who went from start to finish in three weeks. 15 hours with an Instructor, and 25 with a safety pilot is the minimums.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I'll stradle the line here.
I think an instrument rating is an important part of becoming a professional pilot, not because it teaches you about approaches, but because it teaches you how to control the airplane in a much more gentle fashion. On the flip side, I don't think it's necessary to all types of operations, the only reason it's a good thing to have in your "bag-o'-tricks" is so that when the weather dumps on you, you can get a pop-up, and you have some experience flying around in the goo. If we're talking the PTS here, the answer is simple, teach a little bit more instrument work during the Private, to include shooting some sort of approach. Don't teach "holds" or enroute stuff or anything like that with the private, but definitely they have to have been instructed by a CFII on how to shoot an approach prior to their check ride - then don't test it except in the oral. That way, they've been instructed, if they get into trouble they can declare, and shoot an approach.
I think an instrument rating is an important part of becoming a professional pilot, not because it teaches you about approaches, but because it teaches you how to control the airplane in a much more gentle fashion. On the flip side, I don't think it's necessary to all types of operations, the only reason it's a good thing to have in your "bag-o'-tricks" is so that when the weather dumps on you, you can get a pop-up, and you have some experience flying around in the goo. If we're talking the PTS here, the answer is simple, teach a little bit more instrument work during the Private, to include shooting some sort of approach. Don't teach "holds" or enroute stuff or anything like that with the private, but definitely they have to have been instructed by a CFII on how to shoot an approach prior to their check ride - then don't test it except in the oral. That way, they've been instructed, if they get into trouble they can declare, and shoot an approach.
squeezemylemon
Well-Known Member
I would cover the windows instead of using hood,like in uk.they simulate Imc in vfr and u see nothing.
ckthepilot
Well-Known Member
I would alter Lazy 8s and Steep spirals.