If Mesa furloughs....

DE727UPS

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
How does that effect those in the MAPD/Pace pipeline?

I'd think twice about this program as you have no options outside of Mesa with no CFI and 300 hours total time. You could be out a lot of money with nothing to show for it for a long time while your CFI buddies build time and experience, and move on.
 
This is why I opted NOT to go to MAPD in April. I'd rather scrimp and starve as a CFI building hours than spend about the same at MAPD to be put in a pool. From what I gather from Bog's posts, there aren't any training classes going on right now, and there won't be for some time. Plus, building hours as a CFI opens the door to other regionals, charter work, freight, etc.
 
There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Option A) Take your chances as a CFI like I did. After almost 1000 hours and 80 multi, and my 80% of my schools aircraft laying upside down after a hurricane, it's been a rough road. I've now signed on to instruct another year at a school with plenty of multi time to be had. All set and done, I got my 4 year (done in under 3 years) and ratings, then started instucting. Time from zero -> airline (hopefully later this year) will be about 5 years.

Option B) Go through MPD for 19 months, get hired, wait a few months (June) until ground schools start up again, and then work at a regional.

I'd personally pick option B after going down the uncertain road I went. I have several friends who work freight and several in the regionals and the 121 guys have much better overall lifestyles. Same goes for 135 - my former chief flight instructor flew 135 before going to Expressjet, and is happy he made the switch.

***NOTE: THE ABOVE REPRESENTS MY PERSON REFERENCES AND IS IN NO MEANS A REFLECTION OF PARTICULAR COMPANIES***

People will frown upon anything that takes shortcuts over what they did. Is it jealousy? I don't know. Maybe they feel people have to pay their dues just like they did. Who knows.

You're right, if Mesa doesn't hire for awhile (word is until June) they go chill or get their CFI for a few months. I'd still go option B personally, after traveling down my road.

~wheelsup
 
"Is it jealousy? I don't know."

Hardly jealousy...

Am I not intitled to my opinion without being considered jealous? I based it on my dislike for 300 hour jet F/O's, my belief that all your time spent working your way up makes you a better overall pilot, and my feeling that MAPD helps keep the pilot group at Mesa down.

Wheelsup....I'm not surprised that you, as a CFI workin' his way up, would think the grass is greener at MAPD. I just see it from another angle....
 
[ QUOTE ]
"Is it jealousy? I don't know."

Hardly jealousy...

Am I not intitled to my opinion without being considered jealous? I based it on my dislike for 300 hour jet F/O's, my belief that all your time spent working your way up makes you a better overall pilot, and my feeling that MAPD helps keep the pilot group at Mesa down.

Wheelsup....I'm not surprised that you, as a CFI workin' his way up, would think the grass is greener at MAPD. I just see it from another angle....

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MAPD definitely works. After about 3 to 4 months online, you are as good, better, or worse than the flight instructor at handling different situations and flying the plane (IMO), it just depends on whether you are a natural pilot or not.
I think UPS727 is correct in saying that if Mesa furloughs, you are screwed. I would reccomend going to ATP and instruct, and get on somewhere else. The time it takes (all-in) is about the same (2 years).
I think he is wrong in saying that MAPD students bring down the rest of the Mesa pilot group. In my ground school, there were around 8 MAPD students to around 42 non-mapd. To say that some kind of whipsaw can occur w/ the small # of mapd'rs is ridiculous.
The reason Mesa pilots are in the position they are in is due to the majority of the pilots having only been w/ Mesa for under 4 years (when the TA was signed, it was lower than 4 years). Once the tenure goes up, there will be some major changes (which is starting to happen right now).
It is not MAPD'rs bringing down the house.
 
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How does that effect those in the MAPD/Pace pipeline?

I'd think twice about this program as you have no options outside of Mesa with no CFI and 300 hours total time. You could be out a lot of money with nothing to show for it for a long time while your CFI buddies build time and experience, and move on.

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Logic would say there would be a traffic jam at the end of the MAPD pipeline. You better believe those on fulough will be pissed, to say the least if Mesa keeps hiring...
 
Right now as far as I know, there are only 4 furloughed right now. They were pulled out of the last groundschool class and are on hold for the next one. The closing of the B1900 system down in FL is keeping the training dept busy transitioning them into the jet. Once that glut works its way through the new hire groundschools should start again.
 
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Right now as far as I know, there are only 4 furloughed right now. They were pulled out of the last groundschool class and are on hold for the next one. The closing of the B1900 system down in FL is keeping the training dept busy transitioning them into the jet. Once that glut works its way through the new hire groundschools should start again.

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Damn, I love the B1900.
 
Hey Smitty, is that girl legal enough for us to drool over yet?!

As for Mesa, don't plan on any newhires for several months. Aside from the FL system shutting down, we're sending 10 Beeches to Big Sky and retraining those folks into the RJs, too.

Save the money. Don't do MAPD.

Now, as for an MAPDer being "up to speed" after 3 or 4 months online, I beg to differ. I've had CFIs and MAPDers in the right seat, and it's clear that the CFIs have a better grasp on things that the 300-hour FOs.
 
She's 18...drool away...

That's what she's there for.
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I'd think twice about this program as you have no options outside of Mesa with no CFI and 300 hours total time. You could be out a lot of money with nothing to show for it for a long time while your CFI buddies build time and experience, and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]It's for this reason I don't think I would recommend farmington or midland. With out a CFI and only 300TT you're in a very vulnerable spot and at the mercy of Mesa. With mesa in its current situation, why gamble?

I have different feelings about ASU MPD.
 
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we're sending 10 Beeches to Big Sky

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i wonder if they will finally allow their Metroliner's to give up the ghost.
 
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It's for this reason I don't think I would recommend farmington or midland. With out a CFI and only 300TT you're in a very vulnerable spot and at the mercy of Mesa. With mesa in its current situation, why gamble?

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Exactly. That's why I'm taking the money I WAS going to use for MAPD and getting the CFI stuff out of the way. I'd rather be screaming "more right rudder" in a 172 than sitting by the phone not drawing a paycheck for months on end.

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I have different feelings about ASU MPD.

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Major difference is that it's a four year degree instead of two and you have a CFI track, right?
 
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Major difference is that it's a four year degree instead of two and you have a CFI track, right?

[/ QUOTE ]Yep, similar to most other collegiate programs.
 
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As for Mesa, don't plan on any newhires for several months. Aside from the FL system shutting down, we're sending 10 Beeches to Big Sky and retraining those folks into the RJs, too.

Save the money. Don't do MAPD.

Now, as for an MAPDer being "up to speed" after 3 or 4 months online, I beg to differ. I've had CFIs and MAPDers in the right seat, and it's clear that the CFIs have a better grasp on things that the 300-hour FOs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know someone currently in the program. What do you think the next year is going to be like for those hoping to interview and get a job?????

What are the chances of more furloughs??? (Esp if US Airways tanks)
 
Seeing as how there is already a backlog of MAPDers waiting on an interview, I wouldn't hold my breathe for anyone currently in the program getting interviewed this year or possibly halfway through next. If US Air tanks (or any of their "regional bail-out partners" decide they want to re-negotiate Mesa's deal for more flying), then you can more or less forget the interview for a couple of years.

I was planning on going to MAPD last January, but given the state of United and US Air, I didn't want to spend $10K on training to lock myself in with one specific airline. I decided to spend that $$$ to get my CFI ratings. Not flying for an airline, but I'll be more marketable for a job at least. My best friend went to MAPD and flies CRJs for Mesa out of IAD. He said it's a great program, but he wouldn't recommend it to his worst enemy right now.
 
[ QUOTE ]

I know someone currently in the program. What do you think the next year is going to be like for those hoping to interview and get a job?????

What are the chances of more furloughs??? (Esp if US Airways tanks)

[/ QUOTE ]

Where is he/she at in the program? Mesa started a ground school on April 11th with about 8 MAPD'ers in it, including one MAPD instructor. The last I heard was that there will be another interview session around April 22nd or so. Mesa is allowing 10 students and 1 CFI to interview.

Hiring was going good until January - there were some people pulled out of that class while the 1900 crews got retrained. That's why the next ground school wasn't for 4 months down the line. There is a bit of a backlog but from what I've heard is that everyone who's graduated from the fall '04 has a job or will be interviewing soon. Hopefully things will pick up a bit, but I have no idea what Mesa's attrition is (quite a bit LOL) or deliveries are like.

The best route, IMO, is ATP. I had a former student that came to me as one of my very first private students. He ended up going to ATP, finished his ratings in 90 days, instructed shy of 5 months, and was in Xjet's April 11th class. Some guys have all the luck!

~wheelsup
 
In sims right now, expecting the 'interview' sometime in May (I think). Is there a real concern they may not get a class date for an extended period of time if they aren't in that April interview group? I heard some from the Jan class still don't have anything yet.
 
What sucks is that these people who are waiting all this time could be (maybe are) instructing during that time and gone somewhere a heck of a lot better than mesa. Of course, they'd still be out $15,000 for doing it (PACE course).
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From what I was told, the PACE program was a way to AVOID all that. The "fastest way into an airline job! for those who don't want to wait or unwilling to go the other avenues" I sure hope so, or my pal is gonna be SOL with maybe 400TT and $15K in the hole....
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(PS- It costs $15K for PACE as posted above, right?)
 
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