Ice or Hypoxia?

[F9DXER]

Your in the soup, and the forcast was wrong, again. The breifer said freezing level was supposed to be at 9000, and your at the MEA of 6000. Tops are reported at 17000. You are over mountains, and the nearest airport is 40 minutes away, along with the possibility of a lower altitude. You can't turn back because it's getting worse behind you. Do you deal with the ice, which is going to cripple you airplane, or do you climb up above it and deal with Hypoxia? The airplane you are flying is turbocharged with a service ceiling of 25000. The O2 bottle is empty.

Rember MEA is the lowest published altitude between radio fixes that meets obstacle clearance requirements and in most countries ensures acceptable nav signal coverage.

Not to throw a curve into this but he just said you were over mountains and not in a designated mountainous area

Either way you are guaranteed at least 1000ft of obstacle clearance.

As previously stated - how familiar are you with that area? In this day of gps do you really need signal reception.

A lot of variables come into play.

Maybe the best case would be to declare an emergency and let atc help you out.

Remember pilots report to ATC current conditions first before (if at all) sending a pirep, thus ATC might have more information available, plus the benefit of not trying to find flight servie frequency.

 

[Bumblebee]

Remember- one of the first symptoms is a generally increased sense of well-being.

I would risk hypoxia ONLY as a last resort. Ice is a bad, bad thing, but my ability to reason and correctly perceive the situation around me is my last line of defense against the elements. It's the last thing I'd willingly trade for an 'out' in a given situation.

this is an excellent perspective...and a very strong argument...

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Well.. there are some exceptions.


but I don't know what she flies or for whom.

"Get your ass to Mars. Get your ass to Mars."

 

[MikeD]

"Get your ass to Mars. Get your ass to Mars."

2 weeks!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bumblebee]

"Get your ass to Mars. Get your ass to Mars."

2 weeks!!!!!!!!!!

???

 

[MikeD]

???

Total Recall......

C'mon, I know your old enough to remember!

 

[Bumblebee]

I'm old enough to forget!!!

 

[gomntwins]

If you continue, the ice will be too much for the airplane to handle.

If that's the case you really don't have many options other than to climb and get hypoxic with your scenario. I'd take my chances with hypoxia vs. flying an airplane in so much ice as it can't handle it. All the other advice is great, but with the scenario you gave it sounds like either a) crash with an iced up airplane or b) get hypoxic. I'm going with hypoxia and taking my chances.

 

[Firebird2XC]

This thread has got me thinking.

A few years back, in CFI ground, a bunch of us were thinking about taking a trip to a hypobaric oxygen chamber to see how we personally reacted to the onset of hypoxia, etc. We never followed through, but it could be a pretty interesting learning experience.

I'd be willing to put forward the leg work in setting this up if I could find one in the nearby area or something. Anybody else know anything about this?

 

[ppragman]

"Get your ass to Mars. Get your ass to Mars."

LMFAO!

 

[Cheyenne]

Changing altitude by 4k outa get rid of anything serious on that icing thing. That'd put you at 10k. Then you don't have to worry about being at the tops of the clouds, the most ice, and you aren't piling on that ice at 6k.

If you accept that a standard lapse rate is -2/1000, and that ice won't form below -20C, you'll find that not to be true all the time. I will admit that it has worked more for me than it failed so I like to think of it as a option (nice to consider but don't trust it as a 100% concrete answer)

I'm doubting my climb in those conditions. Exposing the belly and everything else are things to be considered. If it was severe ice you would probably be descending if you hung around long enough to experience those types of conditions. The 396 would guide me when/if I lost comms, and they can pick me up at the only bar in town with an airplane parked in the parking lot

If it was just more ice than I was comfortable with I would take the climb first. In increments as stated in another post but I would cap it at whatever I considered my personal minimums to be. If that didn't work I'd drop an "E" Bomb and get an MVA or whatever I needed.

 

[SIUav8er]

If you continue, the ice will be too much for the airplane to handle.

so the question you are asking is how would we choose to die?

If there is a chance to survive the icing, I would take the ice over hypoxia... but if both are severe enough to kill ya, whats the point in choosing?

 

[minitour]

so the question you are asking is how would we choose to die?

If there is a chance to survive the icing, I would take the ice over hypoxia... but if both are severe enough to kill ya, whats the point in choosing?

Good call. Pitch 20 degrees nose down, firewall it and get it over quick.

-mini

 

[Callador]

DING DING DING!! Winner! This is the key term in this case. -- Bill Nye


What do we do?

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Autopilot at 18k. After awhile pitch sync down ~100 fpm or alt select a lower alt in case you pass out. Depends on how bad it is behind, maybe do this after reversing course.

I love that movie! One of the best lines of the 80's, talk about one bad motha!

I have been up on Pike's Peak which is in the 14's and I never felt hypoxic at all. Mind you, I was walking around and exerting myself too. I think I could sit on my butt and take 17ish.

If the faa had its way, we would all be sucking on the bottle above 5k at night, because I know when I get over 5 I can't see anything but leprechaun vampires outside.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I felt a little bit hypoxic on pike's peak... but I wonder if thats just cause I can notice the effects easier after going through the altitude chamber (which I recommend to everyone.)

 

[Callador]

I felt a little bit hypoxic on pike's peak... but I wonder if thats just cause I can notice the effects easier after going through the altitude chamber (which I recommend to everyone.)

It could be. It wasn't like I was attepting any higher functions like mental math or anything to test myself up there. But I didn't feel loopy or attempt to jump off the side and fly like a bird. I've heard of pilots going up to 15-16 w/o oxygen and they did ok. Of course this is around the hangar talk, so I wouldn't necessarily believe 100% of it.

 

[jynxyjoe]

If you accept that a standard lapse rate is -2/1000, and that ice won't form below -20C, you'll find that not to be true all the time. I will admit that it has worked more for me than it failed so I like to think of it as a option (nice to consider but don't trust it as a 100% concrete answer)

I'm confused what your point is in this paragraph.

It shouldn't work but it does work more often than not

Why are you assuming a standard lapse rate, with the WX described it's not gonna be a standard lapse rate?

I slung it out for 4 years in props, turbocharged and turbo prop, flying everywhere east of the Mississippi. Changing altitude 4k worked every time for me when I was in moderate or above.

 

[TXaviator]

ive taken an altitude chamber ride.

id gladly take the threat of hypoxia over a popsicle aircraft.

i did not find myself to be particularly hampered by the altitude. your mileage may vary. i saw people do all kinds of funny things!

 

[MikeD]

ive taken an altitude chamber ride.

id gladly take the threat of hypoxia over a popsicle aircraft.

i did not find myself to be particularly hampered by the altitude. your mileage may vary. i saw people do all kinds of funny things!

You could end up hypoxic and frozen, ala Lear N47BA....got the worst of both worlds there.

 

[TXaviator]

You could end up hypoxic and frozen, ala Lear N47BA....got the worst of both worlds there.

well as the situation was posed, i could either ice up and die, or maybe get a little loopy, and find an out.

or get loopy, pass out, then ice up and die. sounds like a more relaxing way to go! :insane: