I wish this were just a rumor

Instrument_Proficient

Instrument_Proficient

New Member
I recently heard that the big boys from FlightSafety International came down to the academy and cleaned house letting go 4+ mechanics and several administrative personel.

I guess FSI is not happy with the return or lack thereof on the investment in the academy. It really is too bad. FSA has the best name in the industry. I would hate to see them close the doors on the academy.

I am sure FSI was not complaining when the number of students exceeded 600 in late 99/2000. Maybe they should have saved for a rainy day. It really is their own fault though. FSA has always done well by the whole "word of mouth" reputation. That was good enough when you didn't have competitors like Pan-Am and ATP throwing millions into their programs.

I think anyone who has had something to do with the academy, whether it be student or employee, has said that FSA will suffer if they do not get aggressive with their programs, price, marketing and advertising. I have noticed some improvments on the marketing side the past 6 months but I am afraid they might have made the effort too late.

I hear that FSI is only giving the academy a short period of time to improve the bottom line before they make a decision.

If anyone has more info on this subject or if I am incorrect (hope I am) in what I heard, then please comment.


IP
 
First let me say this...Personally, I think the training here was excellent. The few instructors I had were great and really knew their stuff. I recommend the school to anyone to do their training. But actaully working their is another story though...

The four mechanics were made part-time, not fired. But most of the guys think that they will be leaving soon since part time won't pay the bills, etc. A few people have been laid off in the last few months. The big boys did come down to FSA to try and figure something out. They believe in the training that is going on here and want it to work, but they are tired of it loosing money. Unfortuantely because of all of this, morale is pretty low right now. I think part of the problem is they raised training costs to try and pay the bills, but are scaring people off by doing it. But marketing has been doing a lot to try and get enrollment up. Basically if things don't change soon they are going to start at the top and work their way down, and some heads are gonna role.
 
"FSA has the best name in the industry"

That's debatable. Who speaks for "the industry", anyhow? I think FSA has a great name in the industry and it's well deserved. To say they have "the best" name in the industry makes you sound elitist or like a marketing ad. Personally, I think there are better ways to go.

"FSA will suffer if they do not get aggressive with their programs, price, marketing and advertising"

How could they get more aggressive with these things? Are you saying the price is too high? Are you saying PanAm style marketing is a good thing? If you have to mislead your prospective recruits with marketing like that to improve the schools bottom line, is it worth it?

"FSI is only giving the academy a short period of time to improve the bottom line before they make a decision."

I wouldn't mind seeing direct track go away. Otherwise, I hope FSA can find a way to continue to be the great school it is without using misleading DCA/PanAm/Capt/Gulfstream marketing tactics to suck people in. It's embarrasing to the profession and FSA, for the most part, hasn't lowered themselves to that level.

Badco, did you get a class date yet?
 
Still waiting. Several guys have been called and told to expect a firm class date in a few weeks. Should have some better info Monday, as Catherine in Marketing is going to try and get some better info on what is going on at ASA as far as hiring, etc.
 
Although I did not have enough money to go here, I did admire the professionalism that was conducted while I toured the campus.

However that does not put food on the table these days and due to the “Wal-Marting” of many industries in this country over the past few years to sub third-world levels to remain “Globally Competitive”.

Bottom line everyone demands cheap: cheap airfares, cheap labor, cheap training.

No, I am not a protectionist.

Most of the rational that has been created comes from a lack of leadership in the country. This lack of leadership trickles down to a lack of confidence in the future by its citizens thus defensive reactions occur.
 
Got a call today from a few fellow JCers to check the threads.....

Here are a few things to think about...

Flight Safety has a very expensive campus, fleet, and payroll to maintain. They have some of the best training equipment, classrooms, SIMS, and MX facilities. These things cost money, alot of money. With respect to the 600 students in 2000, I hope the higher ups used those profits to pay down the debt aquired from the new buildings, 20 new Seminoles etc.



" "FSA will suffer if they do not get aggressive with their programs, price, marketing and advertising"

How could they get more aggressive with these things? Are you saying the price is too high? Are you saying PanAm style marketing is a good thing? If you have to mislead your prospective recruits with marketing like that to improve the schools bottom line, is it worth it? "


I believe they can get more aggressive as well. You do not have to market like Pan-Am to be effective. The prices are too high. $20,000 more than when I went through. Must be the gas prices right (LOL)? Every company I have witnessed raising their prices to compensate for fewer customers has failed or nearly gone chapter 11. The problem with the "bean counter" at FSI in NY is that he is not involved first hand with the operations at the academy on a daily basis. He see's numbers and if they are not high enough, he grabs his calculator and figures out how to make them come out right. One phone call and the prices go up until next quarter when he ads them up again.

IF THE ACADEMY IS GOING TO BE A SEPERATE ENTITY, IT SHOULD BE RUN AS A SEPERATE ENTITY WITH ALL OF THE DECISIONS BEING MADE AT THE ACADEMY LEVEL..... FSA cannot wipe their butt without calling FSI NY for their approval. The marketing department has suffered the most from this. Being in managment at the academy is like being told OK, you are the General Manager, but you cannot hire or fire without our OK.


" "FSA has the best name in the industry"

That's debatable. Who speaks for "the industry", anyhow? I think FSA has a great name in the industry and it's well deserved. To say they have "the best" name in the industry makes you sound elitist or like a marketing ad. Personally, I think there are better ways to go. "


FSA has more than earned the stellar reputation they have. I'll tell you what DE, just out of curiousity, you call every airlines Cheif Pilot and you tell him that you want to send your son to flight school. Give him three choices, FSA, Mazzie Flying Service, and Pan-Am. Pm me with the results when you are done.......



IF FSA IS TO HAVE A FUTURE....... IMHO, they need to run seperate from FSI with respect to decision making effecting the day to day operations. Bring in new hungry aggressive managment, and......... GO BACK TO THE TRAINING AND STANDARDS THAT MADE THE ACADEMY WHAT IT WAS. Since I first attended FSA in 99/2000 I have seen the academy go through some managment changes with respect to the head of academics and head of standards on the flight line that have been for the worst. HHmmmm, I wonder what Kevin Pence and Al St. George are up to these days (best guys they had)? The management in place now is far too comfy in their positions and are getting complacent. Simply put..... They have lost the edge (Cougar said it best). More often than not, a management change (for the better) is the only remedy for pulling a company out of a slump. Companies like Home Depot, Costco and Nordstroms do it all the time. When the new store manager comes in, he/she is hungry to prove they can make the difference. It works the majority of the time...

I hope FSA pulls out of it, great school with alot of alumni pulling for them.....

ILS
 
everyone's forgetting one thing.....as long as Uncle Al's still alive and kicking, the place will stay open...after that, who knows......
 
"Got a call today from a few fellow JCers to check the threads....."

People call you to post here? Not sure if I should laugh or cry....

I noticed after my post there were 32 people at the FSA forum. You guys must have some sort of alarm that goes off when a new post comes out.

"you call every airlines Cheif Pilot and you tell him that you want to send your son to flight school. Give him three choices..."

How about a fourth choice which is said chief pilot teaches his own son in a Piper Cub. I'll take your bet on that one....
 
badco99 said:
Still waiting. Several guys have been called and told to expect a firm class date in a few weeks. Should have some better info Monday, as Catherine in Marketing is going to try and get some better info on what is going on at ASA as far as hiring, etc.
Click to expand...


There are definitely 4 classes running starting March 27, with another every two weeks. 16 people per class. We'll be hiring a lot if the contract gets settled. Assuming, of course, that aircraft come our way once it is settled.

We are interviewing as of now, and the HR department is getting geared up, but if nothing comes down from management before the 4 classes are run, then hiring will come to a halt in May.

Good luck!

G
 
CLR4ILS said:
The management in place now is far too comfy in their positions and are getting complacent. Simply put..... They have lost the edge (Cougar said it best). More often than not, a management change (for the better) is the only remedy for pulling a company out of a slump. Companies like Home Depot, Costco and Nordstroms do it all the time. When the new store manager comes in, he/she is hungry to prove they can make the difference. It works the majority of the time...
Click to expand...

I think you hit it right on the head. I have my opinions on who needs to go, and its not any of the instructors. Right now management treats their instructors like crap. They seem to want them to work 24/7, and they just keep dumping it on them. I think they figure they can get away with it since the instructors sign the contract and can't leave with out having to repay training costs, and some are leaving regardless. I bet if they waived the 800hr requirement like they did this summer a majority of the instructors would leave. Hopefully they'll get the hint when people either don't stay to instruct, or just do the internship and leave.
 
DE727UPS said:
"Got a call today from a few fellow JCers to check the threads....."

People call you to post here? Not sure if I should laugh or cry....

I noticed after my post there were 32 people at the FSA forum. You guys must have some sort of alarm that goes off when a new post comes out.

"you call every airlines Cheif Pilot and you tell him that you want to send your son to flight school. Give him three choices..."

How about a fourth choice which is said chief pilot teaches his own son in a Piper Cub. I'll take your bet on that one....
Click to expand...



No, they call me to see if I have any knowledge of the rumor.


Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back big guy. I highly doubt the 32 people all jumped on to see what you had to say. I really don't think they care.

You are avoiding the scenario. nobody said the Cheif pilot had a son. Now, get on with your phone calls and PM me with the results....

ILS
 
badco99 said:
I think you hit it right on the head. I have my opinions on who needs to go, and its not any of the instructors. Right now management treats their instructors like crap. They seem to want them to work 24/7, and they just keep dumping it on them. I think they figure they can get away with it since the instructors sign the contract and can't leave with out having to repay training costs, and some are leaving regardless. I bet if they waived the 800hr requirement like they did this summer a majority of the instructors would leave. Hopefully they'll get the hint when people either don't stay to instruct, or just do the internship and leave.
Click to expand...


When I was there every instructor would have their two days off per week and managment was always very supportive. They would usually put in 10 hour days to get in their flight hours.

On the flip side, they could hire too many instructors and everyone would get fewer students. I would take the long hours to get my flight time and move on...

I think the management that is in place did a fine job when the student load was at an all time high. Now, the students are not rolling through the door and the management is still going about their daily business as if it were 2000. The students arn't just gonna knock on the door and say hello, train me. You have to seek out your customer just like every other company in the world. That academy is not cheap to run. The revenue has to come from somewhere.

I heard that Jay Elder is gone now too. If I were the remaining management I would take a look back to when things ran like a well oiled machine and attempt to restore what is missing.

ILS
 
DE727UPS said:
Yeah...sounds like typical goings on at the best flight school in America....
Click to expand...

Any way you cut it, FSA is a business like every other. The bottom line is how do the numbers look. I have watched and flown at several small FBO schools that couldn't keep the lights on and the doors open.

To put it into perspective for you DE, FSA's overhead looks like Mt. Rainier and your little FBO schools overhead looks like an ant hill.

This is the price you pay to be one of the biggest. just like Dad always told us, plan for a rainy day and everything will work out fine.


ILS
 
Sorry guys, A little off-topic here, would you guys happen to know what an apartment in vero beach....a one bedroom apt. or so nothing fancy would go for to rent?

Well, i don't know anything about FSA management but I may be a prospective CFI student they have.

As far as being aggressive, After talking to marketing on numerous occasions I still don't understand paying 20G's(that's if you get an employee discount) or more for CFI,II,MEI at FSA where ATP and other schools offer them under $7,000. I am not sure if they are doing it different or you get more hours out of it.

By the way, i am sorry i must have missed this, but what is IMHO and JCER's?
 
Flyingbug said:
Sorry guys, A little off-topic here, would you guys happen to know what an apartment in vero beach....a one bedroom apt. or so nothing fancy would go for to rent?

Well, i don't know anything about FSA management but I may be a prospective CFI student they have.

As far as being aggressive, After talking to marketing on numerous occasions I still don't understand paying 20G's(that's if you get an employee discount) or more for CFI,II,MEI at FSA where ATP and other schools offer them under $7,000. I am not sure if they are doing it different or you get more hours out of it.

By the way, i am sorry i must have missed this, but what is IMHO and JCER's?
Click to expand...

I'll agree with every other guy that FSA's prices are a little bloated. With that being said, and after getting my CFI, II and MEI there, I will say that they did a damn good job of preparing me to be a CFI. At ATP and other places that offer the quick, cheap courses, you mostly learn to fly. At FSA, as part of each lesson, you're expected to present a lesson on something or other to your instructor. After tearing it apart, you take what you learned from that and make another lesson plan on another subject. It makes it easier to transition to the real world, paid life of an instructor. FSA also goes very in depth into aeronautical knowledge and regulations....much deeper than a lot of places that I've seen. You also fly quite a bit more than most programs, especially the CFII and MEI programs. You don't want to forget that they'll pay for your II and MEI if you get hired there and start working there, basically bringing the cost for those 3 certificates down to around the 7 large you mentioned (working there also yields quite a bit of multi time....out of 1100 hours dual i gave at FSA, I got around 700 Multi...pretty good if you ask me)

as for the apartments, When I rented there, (about 4 years ago), i was paying about 650/mo, plus utilities. I'm sure its around the same. You'll definitely benefit from shacking up with a class mate when it comes to expenses.
 
"FSA is a business like every other. The bottom line is how do the numbers look. I have watched and flown at several small FBO schools that couldn't keep the lights on and the doors open"

Sounds like FSA has a lot in common with little FBO's.
 
badco99 said:
First let me say this...Personally, I think the training here was excellent. The few instructors I had were great and really knew their stuff. I recommend the school to anyone to do their training. But actaully working their is another story though...

The four mechanics were made part-time, not fired. But most of the guys think that they will be leaving soon since part time won't pay the bills, etc. A few people have been laid off in the last few months. The big boys did come down to FSA to try and figure something out. They believe in the training that is going on here and want it to work, but they are tired of it loosing money. Unfortuantely because of all of this, morale is pretty low right now. I think part of the problem is they raised training costs to try and pay the bills, but are scaring people off by doing it. But marketing has been doing a lot to try and get enrollment up. Basically if things don't change soon they are going to start at the top and work their way down, and some heads are gonna role.
Click to expand...

i'm debating on sickin the grammar/spelling nazis on you.
 
I have heard rumors of a change in management/chief instructors. That's about it.

I don't think the school is going away. We've had lots of new students in the past few months. When I got here in september, we had a private class of 18 people. There are about 10 pre-privates that got here about a month ago. It's not like students aren't choosing the school, it's just not as many as they're use to.

So far I think they've made good decisions. We don't need that many maint people, because we don't cycle all the aircraft like they use to. I think they could let some admin/ground school staff go as well.

Keep in mind also- they just erected a new maintenance hanger. As well as purchased 2 new Seminole frascas. They even remodeled the flight operations building. Would they do these things if they were planning on closing the doors? I doubt it.

They're trying to attract more students, I think they'll succeed.

As for DE, your opinion is always bright. For the most part, I think you're just a bitter old bastard.
 
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