I need your help!! Thinking about quitting XJT

Well, according to many here I have fallen off of the "big time" and am now back in the "minor leagues" again... but to answer your question I made 3 of what some would consider "lateral" moves before being hired by US Airways in 1999.
 
aloft said:
The other thing to consider is what your resume will look like to a major when the time comes. Seems to me you've already got a fair amount of job-hopping to explain....
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To be honest, the majors is an option, but I haven't really considered going over to'em. I've always figured I'd get a corporate gig out of LA or something like that.
 
blee256 said:
i live in LA, and if I were you I would just stay. a few months ago who knew that XJT would stop hiring and upgrades would slow down. Same could happen to skywest few months from now. IF you leave not only are you giving up your seniotiry, you are gonna have to live in year one pay again. XJT second year pay is something like 34 an hour isnt it? Is it worth it to live at 19 a year just cuz you couldnt wait a few months for LA?

XJT is a top tier regional. its not like you are flying for mesa or tsa. I would just stay because XJT has to LA bases. Where skywest only has a reserve base for like 4 pilots.

isnt ONT and LAX junior bases? You weren'ut it able to hold it out of class?

ultimately its your choice. but I would stay. and if you do leave dont be surprised if your sitting in new hire initial at SkyWest and movement happens again xjt. Thats just how this industry goes.

Brian,

I remember when Skywest offered you an early start date on the Bro. You turned it down because you did not want start first year pay and decided to stay at PCL. I respect that decision, it has worked for you, but if you would have started then you would have been a line holding captain in less than a year, at a base close to you home, making almost double what you make now. My point is a lateral move can be good sometimes.

Good luck
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I'm not that big of a fan of lateral moves.

I know a guy who left Delta to go to United and ended up getting furloughed during 9/11. Another one left to go to USAir because he lived in Pittsburgh and came begging for his job back after a week.

In my opinion, things are still too fluid at the regional level to determine the best long term move, especially in light of nearly $100/bbl oil and some of the majors reducing and/or cutting service to smaller markets.

Me? I'd stick it out, log some SIC and apply at (for example) CAL, who doesn't have a PIC requirement. Then at least you're relatively protected from the contract-flying game and can enjoy a place where you can fly until retirement or springboard to a more 'fashionable' carrier of that day.

I know I'm talking to a unbelieving crowd, but there's going to be some serious bloodletting in 2008 so start getting higher up the food chain, folks.
 
I COMPLETELY disagree with Doug re: go to CAL before getting the PIC turbine.

HUGE mistake. Hundreds of US Airways pilots did that in the late 90s and, once furloughed, discovered they were not qualified to go to any of the companies that were hiring.

Sorry Doug. Gotta part ways with you on this one.
 
The Brasilia isn't going to go away just yet. The Cali/United flying is going to be shrinking though, so that might be a consideration for you. Ultimately I think there will be some California EMB flying for awhile. We are planning on more EMB classes through the first quarter of the year. With your experience I'm guessing they would like to see you in a jet class, BUT you could ask for the Brasilia. Not sure what would happen though.

Hard decision, and it sounds like there is a personal relationship at risk if you stay put. Who knows though? You might get the LA or ONT transfer sooner than you think. Good luck!
 
I would never have applied to a company that could base you in Newark if being home was that important for you. Could you get ONT in the next six months? If so I'd stay put.
 
I'll be honest, this commute sucks HARD. If I were based in LAX or ONT, I could leave the morning I start reserve and come home on the last day of reserve no problem. Right now, I'm leaving at 10:00 a.m. the day BEFORE I start reserve and coming home from Newark (to Salt Lake City) the day after I get done flying. To put it simply, I'm probably averaging 1.5 days at home right now. With some creative personal drops I'm able to be home 3 days a week, but it comes at a cut in pay.

Emily's dealing with it alright so far, but I've made it clear to her that if it gets to be too much I've got zero problems leaving this job to find something that will keep me home more. I realize and accept that I'm going to be gone from home while I'm doing this gig, but being away 6 days a week is a bit much, especially when you have less than 24 hours at home. It's hard to keep a relationship up and plan a wedding like that.

Skywest would be great if they had a union and could work towards some better pay rates and had some protection from the FAA/management should anything happen in the plane, but right now I'm going to stick with Express and hope I can get out to LAX or ONT within my first year of employment. If I can't, then I'm probably gone either because Emily is ready to leave me or more likely, we've furloughed.

Things are either going to be extremely good, or extremely bad at Express depending on what happens in the next year. Right now no new hire classes are scheduled until May of 2008, which is a date that continues to get pushed back. To be honest, if Skywest DOES continue to hire THROUGH 2008 then it's the better move because right now for me and Miguel there is ZERO protection from furlough. If there is any kind of a wobble in the economy we're both hosed. Miguel is currently sitting as THE LAST pilot in Newark and I'm only about 50 numbers above him in base, though 200 company wide (which ain't much on a list of 3,200 people).

But if Skywest does the same thing Express did, which is to hire like gangbusters until right after I got out of training, then he'd be equally screwed.

It's a complete crap shoot in my opinion at this point. Skywest COULD have the exact same thing happen, or it couldn't. Who the heck knows at this point.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I COMPLETELY disagree with Doug re: go to CAL before getting the PIC turbine.
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That's good! And healthy! ;) Seriously, if I can't handle someone challenging my opinion, I've got no justification to have one, no? :)

But I figure it's like this. I put myself in his shoes for a second. The commute to the NE is crap. But then if I were to jump ship, go to another airline, back to another ground school, there's no guarantee that I'll have a better commute and I've just wasted a couple of months where I could have been gaining seniority, getting a better schedule and/or bidding a much closer base sitting in ground school at another lateral-move airline.

I'd rather be three months ahead than putting everything on pause for three months in the hopes of getting a more western base.

I almost did that myself when my dad was dying. UAL had massive west coast bases, fast upgrades and I could spend more time with my father and probably be a 777 FO my probationary year rather than a 727 flight engineer based way the heck out in Atlanta at a company where I would be another "fo4ever" (meaning slow upgrade projections, not 6'2, married to mqaaord and resembling a soap star)

If I had done that, at THAT time, people would have thought I was a genius. But in retrospect, it'd have torpedoed my career.

Heck, I heavily considered leaving Skyway for Mesaba (fast upgrades, feeding a major that people had actually heard of, street captains and way bigger aircraft) in 1996, but my mentor gave me the "come to Jesus" speech and it worked out.

I think it really depends on GreenDay's long term goals. If he's looking to move to a much larger global carrier, I'd minimize lateral moves, focus on building experience at ExpressJet and move up. If he's looking to retire at a regional, well, it might be a good move if the today's conditions don't change for the next 35-ish years.

I do know that some airlines look at things like lateral moves because that flags that the applicant is going to jump to a more fashionable carrier when given the opportunity.

"Why did you leave Xjet for Skywest?"

"I wanted to be closer to home"

"Where do you live?"

"ABC"

"We don't have a base near ABC. We'll call ya!"
 
I should add something else, and this is something that's echoed by everybody I've talked to in my class (we had 5 guys from Salt Lake that all ended up in Newark).

We all love ExpressJet. The people are awesome, the flying is great, the airplane is awesome, to be honest as a base Newark rocks it (the location simply blows), but if our wives/significant others leave us then what's the use? There are a lot of folks having this discussion right now because they don't think they can hack the commute for an indefinite period of time, which is what is realistic right now (though some people are still stuck in the idea that you'll be off reserve fast and get whatever base you want quickly at Express, which is simply not happening anymore).

Things could turn around tomorrow. Things could crap out the day after that. Nobody really knows what's going to happen. Another reason I came here is because I think the guys up top at Express know what they're doing, and I'm trusting them (as much as you can) to not put me on the street.

Maybe I'm naive for thinking they can pull something out, who knows.
 
Doug Taylor said:
That's good! And healthy! ;) Seriously, if I can't handle someone challenging my opinion, I've got no justification to have one, no? :)

But I figure it's like this. I put myself in his shoes for a second. The commute to the NE is crap. But then if I were to jump ship, go to another airline, back to another ground school, there's no guarantee that I'll have a better commute and I've just wasted a couple of months where I could have been gaining seniority, getting a better schedule and/or bidding a much closer base sitting in ground school at another lateral-move airline.

I'd rather be three months ahead than putting everything on pause for three months in the hopes of getting a more western base.

I almost did that myself when my dad was dying. UAL had massive west coast bases, fast upgrades and I could spend more time with my father and probably be a 777 FO my probationary year rather than a 727 flight engineer based way the heck out in Atlanta at a company where I would be another "fo4ever" (meaning slow upgrade projections, not 6'2, married to mqaaord and resembling a soap star)

If I had done that, at THAT time, people would have thought I was a genius. But in retrospect, it'd have torpedoed my career.

Heck, I heavily considered leaving Skyway for Mesaba (fast upgrades, feeding a major that people had actually heard of, street captains and way bigger aircraft) in 1996, but my mentor gave me the "come to Jesus" speech and it worked out.

I think it really depends on GreenDay's long term goals. If he's looking to move to a much larger global carrier, I'd minimize lateral moves, focus on building experience at ExpressJet and move up. If he's looking to retire at a regional, well, it might be a good move if the today's conditions don't change for the next 35-ish years.

I do know that some airlines look at things like lateral moves because that flags that the applicant is going to jump to a more fashionable carrier when given the opportunity.

"Why did you leave Xjet for Skywest?"

"I wanted to be closer to home"

"Where do you live?"

"ABC"

"We don't have a base near ABC. We'll call ya!"
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This is true, but to be honest with you boss, I don't think ANYBODY has the silver bullet for getting on with ANY company.

When the mainlines first started hiring you couldn't get a 737 job without time in an RJ. Beech time? Useless.

Now you can find a 777 job no problem with nothing but Beech 99 time.

Continental is calling guys without ANY turbine PIC and slamming the door on captains with 1,000+ hours of TPIC, a college degree and somebody who used to be an intern and did the chief's laundry for 6 months while reassuring him that his new trophy wife really IS a genius.

Sometimes you get into an interview and they don't like the look of you, smell of you, taste of you or maybe even the color of tie you're wearing and you get shown the door even though you might be a swell guy and have all the qualifications the company wants.

Other times you barely meet the minimums, have 20 hours of TPIC in a Beech 1900D and get hired by one of the best companies out there 'cause you wow them, right boss?

Further, I've come to realize that not everybody will even be able to make it to the majors for one reason or another. It's not from lack of trying, but something seems to stop some guys that have all the qualifications and I think are great guys and would do well at X company, but somebody else doesn't agree.
 
If your wife is going to leave you over EWR, she's certainly going to leave you when you get that million-dollar job at FedEx and get assigned Subic Bay or Anchorage.

And take 2/3's of your shizzle.
 
Doug Taylor said:
That's good! And healthy! ;) Seriously, if I can't handle someone challenging my opinion, I've got no justification to have one, no? :)

But I figure it's like this. I put myself in his shoes for a second. The commute to the NE is crap. But then if I were to jump ship, go to another airline, back to another ground school, there's no guarantee that I'll have a better commute and I've just wasted a couple of months where I could have been gaining seniority, getting a better schedule and/or bidding a much closer base sitting in ground school at another lateral-move airline.

I'd rather be three months ahead than putting everything on pause for three months in the hopes of getting a more western base.
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the big problem though, is that xjet has stopped hiring, so there's no seniority to gain, no better schedules to shoot for, and the last perm bid was just canceled (perm bid includes base transfers and upgrades - so no upgrades until at least may).

at this point, it's a matter of waiting to see what happens. John and I have talked at length about this and we've decided to stick it out and see what happens at xjet because who knows what the hell could happen in this industry. skywest could stop hiring at any moment and xjet might just start again. They may (or may not) get more delta flying which would mean (potentially) a SLC base or a BOS base.

really, I don't think we could handle another year of first year pay - especially only $19/hr when I'm not making all that much myself. July seems to be the silver lining - that'll be when he hits second year pay.
 
But has Moses brought down stone tablets emblazoned with "Skywest Will Continue to Hire Throughout 2008"?

Trust me, I've seen a few cycles in the business. I have nothing to gain with any decision GreenDay makes.
 
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