I need Help Please :(((( (LANDING)

JaceTheAce said:
JUST REMEMBER: Pitch for airspeed, power for altitude.
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Ahhhhhhhhhh! Not this again! ;)

I've known pilots who are 100% certain it is "pitch for airspeed, power for altitude," and pilots who are absolutely completely convinced it's "power for airspeed, pitch for altitude." In reality, both sayings are over-simplifications. Pitch/power are continuously intertwined. You shouldn't adjust one without adjusting the other.

The only reason I say this is to provide the alternate view. I've taken checkrides from two different examiners who both said, in no uncertain terms, that the idea of "pitch for airspeed, power for altitude" is garbage. I wouldn't want Persian to go for his checkride and get yelled at.
 
:yeahthat:

You can skin that cat either way. I happen to like pitching for altitude (glidepath) and powering for airspeed when power is available and sufficient. But, ultimately, both methods get you to the same place.

Practice makes perfect, Persian. I remember when I thought I'd never be able to land a Tomahawk. Now I can land any of the dozen or so planes I've flown in a wide variety of conditions. Heck, before you know it you'll be betting beers with your instructor to see who can put the right main in the middle of the '0' on 30R without floating!
 
Always remember perfect landing speed is stalling speed right before you touch down, that used to be my problem; coming in too fast and then slamming on the damn brakes.
Always remember you can go around if you are not comfortable with your approach. I did that alot of times especially in the damn windy days. If you slam on the brakes there is a huge chance of striking the propeller to the ground which is not really pretty ( I have seen it live).
And NEVER make your instructor yell at you in those headsets, really doesn't help in concentration.
 
Persian, next time you go flying, have your instructor place a sectional chart over the panel, covering every instrument. Have him demonstrate a landing with no reference to instruments, all visual. Then you do it while he monitors you. Do a few landings with no instruments and your landings will improve greatly. Your problem seems to be you are fixating on the ASI, therefore your "chasing" the needle. Your basic private pilot's license is all about aircraft control by reference to outside visual aids, not instruments. Sure you need to be instrument proficient as a pilot, but if you can't land the airplane by what you "see" and "feel", you're not grasping the concept of pitch/power and aircraft control.

My examiner did this for me on my private check ride, and I had some of my best landings. Now granted, you want to be at a target airspeed on final, and you certainly will have to maintain target airspeeds later on in your career, especially your instrument training. But learning how the airplane reacts soley by outside references will make you more proficient. You can see directly the relationship between pitch and power. You keep the nose of the aircraft on your aiming point, adjust power to maintain that aiming point. If you're nose drops below the aiming point, add some power if your too high, pull the power back but keep the same aiming point on the nose. Its best to see it in the airplane, you'll get the picture.
 
hrm, i dunno about all this 'look at the far end of the runway' stuff.... i find that when im down to about 10 feet or so, if i totally look at the far end of the runway, then i have a *harder* time judging how high i am than if i look at some intermediate type of distance, where i can still make out detail on the runway surface, etc etc... different strokes for different folks i guess.... youll find the *feeling* and *look* that works best for you with practice i am sure.
 
Vladimir Lenin said:
quit now, save your parents money
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If you are kidding, don't forget to use the smilies and sarcasm tag. If you're not, go away. We don't need or want you around. Thank you, good night.:)
 
alphaone said:
It is, without a doubt, pitch for airspeed power for altitude......
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I can give you the names and numbers of two examiners (both of which have been flying since before either of us was born) who will chew your ear off for saying that on a checkride. Wanna discuss it with them? ;)
 
jrh said:
I can give you the names and numbers of two examiners (both of which have been flying since before either of us was born) who will chew your ear off for saying that on a checkride. Wanna discuss it with them? ;)
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Really...what method do they prefer? Maybe we were all taught wrong?!?
 
rickyrhodesii said:
Really...what method do they prefer? Maybe we were all taught wrong?!?
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Oh let's not start this again! Pitch/power. Power/pitch. Both are necessary when both are variable. Try being low and slow on final and change one without changing the other and you're likely to have a problem.

Teaching one as predominating over another is just that - a =teaching= technique to get the new pilot from the 2D world of driving to the 3D world of flying.
 
jrh said:
I can give you the names and numbers of two examiners (both of which have been flying since before either of us was born) who will chew your ear off for saying that on a checkride. Wanna discuss it with them? ;)
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I think most pilots (private and up) understand that "pitch for airspeed, power of altitude" is a bit oversimplified. Obviously the two concepts are intertwined, and there are times when it is impractical or unsafe to change one without changing the other.

None the less, I have found this "oversimplied" concept to be an excellent tool for teaching new private pilots the basics of aircraft control. I have found that once this is understood and mastered, students are quickly able to draw meaning conclusions about the relationships between aircraft pitch, power, and configuration.

It's easy for a highly experienced pilot to (such as a DE) to disqualify such a simple little teaching tool. I am curious to know what more effective method they might recommend for teaching the basics of the pitch/power relationship.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Oh let's not start this again!
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Sorry, I was trying to start an argument over technique, i was just a little curious! i wasn't aware it was discussed already...i'll have to try out the search function!:)
 
rickyrhodesii said:
Sorry, I was trying to start an argument over technique, i was just a little curious! i wasn't aware it was discussed already...i'll have to try out the search function!:)
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Here's the thread where I go deep into why I think "Pitch for altitude, power for airspeed" makes more sense, but in the end, either way ought to get the same job done:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=22107
 
im surprised that this has not been mentioned before, but the use of trim to keep you on a stabalized approach will do wonders for maintaining airspeed. remember your trimming the airplane for an airspeed therefore if you are trimmed for 63kts (like said get it close dont worry right now with exact) the airplane will seek to hold that airspeed itself or with very little help from you. it is quite possible to fly an airplane down the glide path at approach speed and land without ever touching the yoke, simply using trim. so to sum it all up the little trim wheel is there for a reason so use it as much as you can. im not saying to fly with the trim but dont fly an airplane thats not properly trimmed
 
hattrick said:
im surprised that this has not been mentioned before, but the use of trim to keep you on a stabalized approach will do wonders for maintaining airspeed. remember your trimming the airplane for an airspeed therefore if you are trimmed for 63kts (like said get it close dont worry right now with exact) the airplane will seek to hold that airspeed itself or with very little help from you. it is quite possible to fly an airplane down the glide path at approach speed and land without ever touching the yoke, simply using trim. so to sum it all up the little trim wheel is there for a reason so use it as much as you can. im not saying to fly with the trim but dont fly an airplane thats not properly trimmed
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hmm well the funny thing is that my CFI doesn't want me to use trim at all on APPR :( kinda sad huh ? :(
 
SLCC trains in the Alarus CH2000 correct?

Persian_Pilot SLCC trains in the Alarus CH2000 correct? If so, I have about 500 hours in one and can give you a few tips if you like. IM me or e-mail me and I will be happy to help.
 
Persian_Pilot said:
hmm well the funny thing is that my CFI doesn't want me to use trim at all on APPR :( kinda sad huh ? :(
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You might want to ask your CFI to clarify this. There must be some misunderstanding somewhere. I can't imagine a CFI telling somebody to fly a plane out of trim.

Maybe your CFI means you shouldn't be fiddling with the trim, adjusting it up and down, all the way down final?
 
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