I hate to say it,,,,but I became "that guy"

popaviator

popaviator

Well-Known Member
After instructing for 8 months I can honestly say that due to the last 2 months of just time building with students, my knowledge has decreased more than I like. I remember my first students and how I busted my ass to know every damn reg and rule. Does anyone else feel like after a while unless you keep up that motivation, that the knowledge begins to dwindle away. I guess it was bound to happen after burning holes in the sky with the sole purpose of building time... although now that I look back on it I probably should have quizzed my students as we flew. I kinda feel like "that guy" who I didn't want to become when I first started instructing. :mad:
 
not instructing but after i hit about 200hrs I hit a financial snag that stopped my from flying for 6 months and i got really down about it and stopped studying, now that I'm back on track, I find I already forgot a bunch of stuff and it sucks to get back up to speed.
 
popaviator said:
After instructing for 8 months I can honestly say that due to the last 2 months of just time building with students, my knowledge has decreased more than I like. I remember my first students and how I busted my ass to know every damn reg and rule. Does anyone else feel like after a while unless you keep up that motivation, that the knowledge begins to dwindle away. I guess it was bound to happen after burning holes in the sky with the sole purpose of building time... although now that I look back on it I probably should have quizzed my students as we flew. I kinda feel like "that guy" who I didn't want to become when I first started instructing. :mad:
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I know 100% about how you feel. While I still try to help students (I fly with a lot of kids who aren't mine on simple XCs or night flights etc) as much as I can when I'm actually getting paid for it, my knowledge base goes out the window. It's hard to get the motivation to get going again. I just recently had my 1 student get through the Instrument course without any trouble, but it took some effort on my part to get the explaining done. I feel that I can teach well in the airplane, but the book stuff is my weak point.

One thing that I was never the least bit confident on was aerodynamics...nevermind teaching it. I've never had anyone sit down with me (even during CFI) and teach me Aero and how to teach it. I've taken the class on it in school, but it was bare minimum...know it for the test and dump it. I can get through the basics, but it's tough to remember EVERYTHING if you're flying with Private, Instrument, AND Commercial students.

It's usually the WHY questions that get me. As well as HOW things work. I'm more of a reader, and I want to see things -officially- written down and shown with pictures of how they work. Then I can relate that information to students.

I still use notes when I teach lessons on the ground too. I could never get up in front of a student or group of students and just teach something. I was always a good student myself and got good grades but was never much of a teacher. I envy those who can do it well.

I'm probably saying this because I'm a part-time instructor while going to school. I earned my CFI through a "Fast Track" program with the school a year and a half ago. Since then I've signed 1 person off and thats it. All of my teaching has come from XCs, night flights, landings flights, and stuff like that. The ONLY airplane the school lets us lowly part-timers fly is the C172 even though I've got an MEI. Should I end up with a multi "upgrade" I know my motivation would hit the ceiling.

I'm guess I'm just tired of ended up in the practice area over and over again. And to be honest, I've become extremely complacent. When the time comes for me to do something new though, I'm game on. There's only so many times you can stay in the pattern in Daytona and not get bored out of your mind. Dangerous? Not really, but safe? Not really either. When I fly now in the 172 though, the checklist and the airport diagram (unless I'm not familiar with the airport) go right out the window.

Sorry for the life story and to be a debbie downer, but I think I'm just burnt out. When it all comes down to it though, all I need is 200 hours between January and May, and I will be at 1000/100. Will there be jobs? Maybe, but I've got something sort of lined up.
 
Not trying to get on a soapbox here, but if your sole purpose is building time, you're ripping off your students.
 
I think its more the fascination with regulations and rules wearing off at about 6 months of being a flight instructor. You begin to realize that they have a very minor role in actually teaching a person the skills of how to fly an airplane, so all the stuff you studied for and memorized for your CFI checkrides becomes a little less useful. That's not to say you forget, per se, you just become much more of someone who knows how to look something up than knowing every obscure regulation by heart.
 
I am the opposite. I have been out of instructing for 5 months and all I do is study aviation right now. For reasons everyone here already knows. Anyways, you have to find something you enjoy and do it. This curriculum has given me enjoyment and made me want to study, so I study.
 
DaveC said:
Not trying to get on a soapbox here, but if your sole purpose is building time, you're ripping off your students.
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Yup. If your not feeling it get out.

That being said, lackluster instructors are what keep me in business. Many of my students have had instructors who weren't serious about training and now they are flying with me.
 
Codyjp said:
Yup. If your not feeling it get out.

That being said, lackluster instructors are what keep me in business. Many of my students have had instructors who weren't serious about training and now they are flying with me.
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One of my objectives for myself, even as a part-timer, is to stick with the student no matter what the situation may be. When I'm there instructing, I'm instructing. I can complain about it afterwards, but at no time when I'm flying do I think "ok the longer I stay in the air, the more time I'll get." When the student's there next to you, it's game on as good/bad as he/she may be.
 
Crism said:
One of my objectives for myself, even as a part-timer, is to stick with the student no matter what the situation may be. When I'm there instructing, I'm instructing. I can complain about it afterwards, but at no time when I'm flying do I think "ok the longer I stay in the air, the more time I'll get." When the student's there next to you, it's game on as good/bad as he/she may be.
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You might want to re read your previous post. You admit to not being safe and come off as not give a rats behind.

You also cite that you would be motivated if you were teaching in a twin. With your clear demonstration of not caring your flight school is right on by not letting you into a twin. It if you can't manage to fly a 172 safely I'd certainly to think you'd get in big trouble in a twin.

Stop doing your students and those of us that share the skies with you/them a disservice and get out before you get somebody hurt.
 
Crism said:
I know 100% about how you feel. While I still try to help students (I fly with a lot of kids who aren't mine on simple XCs or night flights etc) as much as I can when I'm actually getting paid for it, my knowledge base goes out the window. It's hard to get the motivation to get going again. I just recently had my 1 student get through the Instrument course without any trouble, but it took some effort on my part to get the explaining done. I feel that I can teach well in the airplane, but the book stuff is my weak point.

One thing that I was never the least bit confident on was aerodynamics...nevermind teaching it. I've never had anyone sit down with me (even during CFI) and teach me Aero and how to teach it. I've taken the class on it in school, but it was bare minimum...know it for the test and dump it. I can get through the basics, but it's tough to remember EVERYTHING if you're flying with Private, Instrument, AND Commercial students.

It's usually the WHY questions that get me. As well as HOW things work. I'm more of a reader, and I want to see things -officially- written down and shown with pictures of how they work. Then I can relate that information to students.

I still use notes when I teach lessons on the ground too. I could never get up in front of a student or group of students and just teach something. I was always a good student myself and got good grades but was never much of a teacher. I envy those who can do it well.

I'm probably saying this because I'm a part-time instructor while going to school. I earned my CFI through a "Fast Track" program with the school a year and a half ago. Since then I've signed 1 person off and thats it. All of my teaching has come from XCs, night flights, landings flights, and stuff like that. The ONLY airplane the school lets us lowly part-timers fly is the C172 even though I've got an MEI. Should I end up with a multi "upgrade" I know my motivation would hit the ceiling.

I'm guess I'm just tired of ended up in the practice area over and over again. And to be honest, I've become extremely complacent. When the time comes for me to do something new though, I'm game on. There's only so many times you can stay in the pattern in Daytona and not get bored out of your mind. Dangerous? Not really, but safe? Not really either. When I fly now in the 172 though, the checklist and the airport diagram (unless I'm not familiar with the airport) go right out the window.
Sorry for the life story and to be a debbie downer, but I think I'm just burnt out. When it all comes down to it though, all I need is 200 hours between January and May, and I will be at 1000/100. Will there be jobs? Maybe, but I've got something sort of lined up.
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Key points highlighted.

Best of luck getting out of the flight instruction business, your really not doing anybody any favors.
 
We've all been there. I'm going on 2+ years of doing it, and while I don't have the same balls to the wall, lets do this mentality I used to, I still accept nothing less than my best, and I understand that my students are paying good money for my time and my expertise (ha, who would've thought I'd call myself an expert...not I!).

I may not relish the idea of spending 40 or 50 or more hours in a 152 in the practice area, but I know that the end result, for the student, and myself will be worth it. Anybody who says they became an instructor, and does not care about time building is lying. All of us, at least on the civvy side, we all are/were attracted to the chance to build hours. I sincerely hope that was but a small, small part of why you became an instructor. I know it was for me. I took that time building as a chance to build valuable experience too, putting myself in different conditions and situations. It benefits me, and the student. I may not always enjoy the process, some students make me want to jump out on downwind, but I know in the end, when it finally clicks and they hit their target it is worth it. My goal is still to put out as proficient a private, instrument, commercial or multi-engine pilot as I can in the few hours we have together. I'm not here to pass checkrides, I'm here to make them a safe and competent pilot.

Don't ever look at it as "all I need is..." you will only be disappointed. I thought when I hit 135 mins I would be able to move on. Wrong. I am approaching the point where I have doubled those mins, and am now hoping for just a chance to move on to something in the coming year or two. I did get lucky and land a part time gig flying a small twin for a company, but those flights have dwindled as business goes downhill with the economy.

In the mean time, I'll keep instructing, and giving my students my best effort no matter the motivation level I may have going into the day. Unfortunately, you will have to find the motivation that works for you. Do not make it a target amount of hours, though. Make it a goal with a student, have a goal in mind with each flight. Today they will be able to start the flare on their own, today they will be able to navigate to and from XYZ VOR, today they will perform a single engine ILS to PTS standards, etc. etc. Remember, you work for them. Make it worth their time.

If you truly have 0 motivation, and are in this only to put hours in your logbook, do yourself, and your students a favor and get out for a while. Come back when you have the motivation to help them become a proficient pilot. The days of flying RJ's at 500/50 are long gone, we now face a long haul as CFI's to even get to a freight, or lowly 121 job at a company we probably never thought of working for. We're going to have to work to get where we want to go, and in the end, it will be worth it.


At any rate, you don't need another lecture so I'll hush up. I understand the frustration and the want to move on, trust me. I do. As do many, many CFI's right now. The truth is, we are lucky to be employed, and have a job flying airplanes at that. As crappy as it seems, that is the truth. (Ok, so now I'm done!) If you ever need to vent, feel free to PM me. I'd be happy to talk!
 
etflies, I think you hit the nail on the head with that one, and I give you huge props. For me though, I should probably stop the numbers game. I play it with myself for reasons I'm not going to go into here, but there is a method to my madness.

I became an instructor to teach students better than I have been taught. I've had experiences with instructors that I would never want students to have. I teach from my experiences and have grown from them myself. I completely agree with you about opening new doors and seeing new conditions. You'll be see a PM at some point.

Cody, I came off the wrong way it seems. I do fly differently with students then when I fly by myself. I'm lucky enough to have the privilege of flying a C150 a few times a week on my own. During this time is when I get complacent, not with students. I am not fortunate to have many students of my own due to my part-time status. The full-timers union has taken all of the work away from us, and therefore, with no work my knowledge base decreases. I can say though that with my Instrument student I had, I was there with him. He was VERY good with self-studying and I'm grateful for that.

I've flown with the good and bad students. At no time have I given up on a student that I've flown with...even if he/she wasn't even mine. If they're having difficulty on something, we work on it. I'm only there for a flight or two, but I put my efforts in.

Oh and there's also no multi upgrades going on for anyone...it's not just me.
 
Pop, I'm going in a different direction than the others.
I've been doing this full time for two and a half years. I've been in that spot where I've thought, 'geez I completely forgot that'. The simple answer is to make a list of things you feel weak on and go over it again. You already learned it once, glancing at it will bring it back in force. It will not take the same amount of energy to learn the stuff again.
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This is the departure -
So what! You are not a computer and you will forget things. I let ever student know that I don't know everything. They expect you to have a plan and be able to get them from A-B, they don't expect you to be a walking encyclopedia (though at times it feels that way and our heads reflect that).

You took your initial checkride and you had a ton a great things memorized via rote; yeah you could spout facts out and look pretty as an instructor but you had zero experience and you were teaching this cat by the seat of your pants.
Now if you've had a few checkrides, the rote stuff can fall away and you can rest assured you are providing better instructor with experience.

I'm talking real teaching ability, real learning.
You can be a Kim peek (rest in peace) of pilots, but it is pointless if you can't translate that into learning.

Keep your head-up, you probably give better instruction than you realize due to this gained experience.
A good instructor in any field is multifaceted. I am sure somebody is better off for having you as their instructor.

It is worth it for you to put forth an effort, word of mouth is everything in FBO instructing.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I think its more the fascination with regulations and rules wearing off at about 6 months of being a flight instructor. You begin to realize that they have a very minor role in actually teaching a person the skills of how to fly an airplane, so all the stuff you studied for and memorized for your CFI checkrides becomes a little less useful. That's not to say you forget, per se, you just become much more of someone who knows how to look something up than knowing every obscure regulation by heart.
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I completely agree. The point is to be a competent PIC, not someone who has memorized the FAR/AIM. You know who has memorized the FAR/AIM, the FAR/AIM... it's a book, bring it with you... you... can... reference... it. However, if you know every regulation but can't land the plane in a 20kt crosswind, then it's pointless.

Aviate
Navigate
Communicate
Emergencies
Checklists
then figure out if what you're doing is legal. If not... NASA ASRS form!
 
etflies said:
I may not relish the idea of spending 40 or 50 or more hours in a 152 in the practice area, but I know that the end result, for the student, and myself will be worth it. Anybody who says they became an instructor, and does not care about time building is lying. All of us, at least on the civvy side, we all are/were attracted to the chance to build hours. I sincerely hope that was but a small, small part of why you became an instructor. I know it was for me. I took that time building as a chance to build valuable experience too, putting myself in different conditions and situations. It benefits me, and the student. I may not always enjoy the process, some students make me want to jump out on downwind, but I know in the end, when it finally clicks and they hit their target it is worth it. My goal is still to put out as proficient a private, instrument, commercial or multi-engine pilot as I can in the few hours we have together. I'm not here to pass checkrides, I'm here to make them a safe and competent pilot.
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Be careful with the use of all, maybe most would be a better word. I can say that I have no desire to do anything in avaiation other than teach. I love to fly and I love to teach. Will I do it full time? I highly doubt that, but I still would love to instruct part time. My 2nd graders probably know more about how a plane flies than most of their peers now. ;)
 
I agree with Amjon in that not all of us are in it to time build. I have a very good job outside aviation and so for me I fly because I love to fly not because it puts hours in my logbook. I'm not chasing some dream job. My dream job is actually to be someone like rod macho and get published and be considered one the top instructors in the country. Also if your burnt out teaching find something that you really like to teach and stick to that. Like acro or gliders. Something that will keep you interested.
 
A couple points I'd like to mention:

You might perceive book knowledge as more valuable than it is, based on how your own training went. I know my college's flight program was VERY heavy on book knowledge. We'd learn the most obscure details about flying (i.e. max holding speeds above 14,000 feet, etc.) and actually thought it mattered. It does matter, on one level, but once I started flying more in the "real world" I gained a more practical perspective of what makes a good pilot.

Coming straight out of college I sort of had the "OMG, you don't know the max hydraulic pressure for a Piper Arrow's gear system????" attitude. Maybe not quite to that extreme, and I rarely said it aloud, but that's what I thought to myself. Since everybody in college studied to that level, I thought that was the only way to be a good pilot and other ways were inferior.

Nowadays, I have a relatively low amount of technical knowledge compared to five years ago, but a much greater understanding of what ultimately makes a good, safe, pilot and can therefore pass on those lessons to the customer. Nobody has died because they didn't know the high altitude VOR service volumes above 45,000 feet. Lots of pilots died because they couldn't handle an in-flight fire. Emphasize your training accordingly.


The second point I'd like to make is that teaching styles change with time. It's inevitable, and not necessarily a bad thing. When I look back at how I taught as a brand new CFI, some things are relatively similar, like my demeanor in the cockpit or the way I debrief people, but other things are noticeably different, like what I emphasize during training or the scenarios I throw at people.

I'm definitely a better teacher now than when I started. I've gone through ups and downs, almost been burned out, been sharper and weaker, but as a whole, have generally gotten better with time. You can't expect to be perfect at everything all the time. You can only keep pushing to refine your skills and make the "package deal" improve with age.
 
jrh, the fun part about ERAU is that they ram you with book knowledge, but have just recently started testing a lot of the in-flight fire emergencies, etc. When I did my training (only 2 years ago), I was never taught any of that stuff. I hate feeling the need to tailor instruction to what the school wants, because it seems like they never know exactly what they want. A lot of the examiners test on different stuff. One guy is practical, and the next guy can be huge on systems and not practical, then another guy makes you come out of a checkride like you were just hit by a bus.
 
There's NEED to know, and there's NICE to know; when it comes to aviation knowledge.
 
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