I hate NDBs
- Thread starter taseal
- Start date
Crockrocket94
Well-Known Member
Push the head and pull the tail 
taseal
Well-Known Member
yeah, i wish it was just as easy as pointing it.... homing is the easy part, its the lets say
I'm on the 120 from bearing, and I need to intercept 330 to bearing... thats where I get confused
I end up turning to 330, and paralleling the course, and see the bearing diff, and double that and turn towards the needle. when te needle shows the diff of bearing, I turn back to my bearing (330) it feels like such a long process thoguh...
I'm on the 120 from bearing, and I need to intercept 330 to bearing... thats where I get confused
I end up turning to 330, and paralleling the course, and see the bearing diff, and double that and turn towards the needle. when te needle shows the diff of bearing, I turn back to my bearing (330) it feels like such a long process thoguh...
CaptBill
Well-Known Member
By the time you get to your airline job you will never use another NDB. We don't even have NDBs in the airplanes anymore. The last time they were installed in the airplanes we only used them to listen to music and talk radio.
Velocipede
New Member
Better never fly in the State of Alaska then. If you're GPS coverage is down, you might just have to fly an NDB approach.
taseal
Well-Known Member
yeah, on long xc flights, I just use it to listen to music (thats if the plane has it) when was the last time you used a NDB? if anything, they are not being repaired once out anyways....
I'm not planning on it
does GPS cov go out alot up there?
CaptBill
Well-Known Member
taseal
Well-Known Member
An NDB approach? Never heard of it.
I was told, if I use NDB apporoach for any reason, it would probably only be in carbibean/jamaica etc since some of those islands don't have VORs
taseal
Well-Known Member
Funny, ATP pulled the ADF and NDBs out of the seminoles so when we do our checkride we dont do anything on them. We didnt even talk about them during training. So we have a bunch of instrument rated and MEIIs who dont know how an NDB works.
-Rob
I hate NDBs and all, but I find it amusing how some people don't even know how to work them... I would at least introduce them on sims and stuff, but not have too much emphasis on it....
how about DME arcs? do you guys do that much? I don't mind them, but just curious if they are used alot
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
Funny, ATP pulled the ADF and NDBs out of the seminoles so when we do our checkride we dont do anything on them. We didnt even talk about them during training. So we have a bunch of instrument rated and MEIIs who dont know how an NDB works.
-Rob
Im a MEII that went to ATP and have no clue as well... just sent in applications to a couple regionals and im going take a crash course in the sim where i instruct in exchange for checkin another instructor out in the G1000.
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
DME arcs are easy once you do it a couple times.
Now a partial panel, single engine, DME arc to an NDB approach are always fun, ask your instructor to show you one...
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Train in an aircraft that doesn't have an ADF. . .that'll fix your problem.
That, and make sure you end up at a company that flys NDB approaches with a GPS/FMS overlay.
That, and make sure you end up at a company that flys NDB approaches with a GPS/FMS overlay.
casey
Well-Known Member
Funny, ATP pulled the ADF and NDBs out of the seminoles so when we do our checkride we dont do anything on them. We didnt even talk about them during training. So we have a bunch of instrument rated and MEIIs who dont know how an NDB works.
-Rob
when i was ATP we had the AST-300 FTDs (or whatever it was) with an ADF and vor/vor rnav (the one at HEF had this).
i made sure all my students could use them. Couldnt do it in the airplane but they learned to enjoy them in the FTD.
CaptBill
Well-Known Member
In reality the NDB approaches are simpler than most make them out to be. It all comes down to understanding them and knowing how to correct. It's like anything, the more you do it, the better you will be at it. I remember several years back that Cleveland Hopkins airport had the ILS down for several months to Rwy 5. As aircraft checked on to approach control you could hear the groans and panic on the radio as the controller said " Expect the NDB approach today." I am sure it caught many pilots off guard and made them scramble to remember the details of this approach which is seldom used. I think you are right, several islands still use the NDB for approaches. At CAL, we can legally shoot an NDB approach without even having an NDB on the airplane. The magic FMC allows such nice things.
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
Well the simulator we had didnt have an NDB in it to even train in.
We did do DME arcs, here is my first real one:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N127AT/history/20070716/2259Z/KRAL/KHAF
I cant see anyone these days ever be given a DME arc approach unless requested.
-Rob
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
You just did a DME arc like halfway through your trip?
Nice, Uh Seminole 575AT please arc east 10 dme from abc vor from 180r to 360r and resume own navigation WTF :laff:
CaptBill
Well-Known Member
Actually, VOR/DME arc approaches are very common in Mexico, South and Central America. I have actually got very good at watching my FOs do them. I always give them the bad weather and challenging approach legs. Hey I'm the captain, I can do that!!!:laff:
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
Also is Good Ol FV still wearing his dirty leisure/jogging suits everyday at VGT???
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
Actually we filed for the DME ARC into Paso Robles and then did the GPS into San Luis ( I think ) and then continued up to Half Moon Bay. So we shot 3 approaches in one trip. Approach was really cool about it.
And yes, Franky Varsolona still wears the jumpsuit every effin' day of the week. Look at my signature at the bottom. His wonderful words of advice to me.
-Rob
Baronman
Well-Known Member
NDB approaches can be challenging to learn if you're doing it without an RMI...
But I think as far as using them in your future...It's true we don't do many NDB approaches, but I think most pilots should understand how to use an RMI with an ADF on it. Understanding the needle points to the station, and how you could get on a course or radial. On our plane (ERJ) it even makes it easier because it shows your ground track on the RMI.
A way we typically do this...Suppose we're getting vectored to an ILS approach. We have our green needles up for the ILS, so the ILS course is dialed in. Then....the controller tells us to fly direct to some fix on the approach. Typically we'll hit "Direct To" on the FMS, but then we'll use an RMI needle to navigate to this fix (so that we can keep the ILS course on green needles). So now we're basically navigating to a station (or a fix on an ILS) with the needle. Sure, we could hone without putting any wind correction in (and honestly I do see some guys do just that) or with a little "know how" use our ground track bug to put in the wind correction needed.
But I think as far as using them in your future...It's true we don't do many NDB approaches, but I think most pilots should understand how to use an RMI with an ADF on it. Understanding the needle points to the station, and how you could get on a course or radial. On our plane (ERJ) it even makes it easier because it shows your ground track on the RMI.
A way we typically do this...Suppose we're getting vectored to an ILS approach. We have our green needles up for the ILS, so the ILS course is dialed in. Then....the controller tells us to fly direct to some fix on the approach. Typically we'll hit "Direct To" on the FMS, but then we'll use an RMI needle to navigate to this fix (so that we can keep the ILS course on green needles). So now we're basically navigating to a station (or a fix on an ILS) with the needle. Sure, we could hone without putting any wind correction in (and honestly I do see some guys do just that) or with a little "know how" use our ground track bug to put in the wind correction needed.