I didn't know Netjets lost THIS much money.

Ouch. Had an XJT Ground Instructor, hired at ASA, was going through ATR Sim training, and he was contacted by NJA to come fly. This was back in March of 07.

Sucks, either way he would be out of work right now. Poor guy.
 
NJA_Capt said:
Geez dude. Lighten up. It was an e-x-a-m-p-l-e. :cool:
Here is this accurate and current enough?
as of 01:12 UTC (EST+5) Dec 07, 2009, the US population is 308,098,152.
http://www.census.gov/

The 2009 World Wealth Report from Capgemini and Merrill Lynch says there are a lot of millionaires next door. Including only investable assets, these experts figure there are 2.5 million Americans with $1 million or more.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/01/ne...nk-personal-finance-net-worth-calculator.html

I hope the US Census Bureau, Forbes and Merrill Lynch are credible enough.


Do you really think we would have been in business since 1964 if we ferried more than we flew revenue??
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I was being mostly facetious but going off your links and numbers: I wouldn't take Forbes and Meryll Lynch as being good sources for millionaires. They are even guessing. But taking their numbers at face value that makes .81% millionaires (your clientele just went down 19%). Either way I think it is a good company that has to diversify itself for instances such as this.

EDIT: Also, I don't know too many barely- millionaires who would plunk down $140k/yr to fly. That cuts down your client population as well. Any other business plans being floated to add to NJ's current one?
 
pullup said:
I was being mostly facetious but going off your links and numbers: I wouldn't take Forbes and Meryll Lynch as being good sources for millionaires. They are even guessing. But taking their numbers at face value that makes .81% millionaires (your clientele just went down 19%). Either way I think it is a good company that has to diversify itself for instances such as this.
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Having Warren Buffet as the owner I am sure helps also I am sure. That guy has made so many people filthy rich through Berkshire stock he could prob run a good size charter company flying only them around.
 
pullup said:
They are even guessing. But taking their numbers at face value that makes .81% millionaires (your clientele just went down 19%). Either way I think it is a good company that has to diversify itself for instances such as this.

EDIT: Also, I don't know too many barely- millionaires who would plunk down $140k/yr to fly. That cuts down your client population as well. Any other business plans being floated to add to NJ's current one?
Click to expand...

Let's just say that I have some basic knowledge of how many customers we have, and how large the approx market is. Millionaires aside, there is a given market size and all frax combined were a VERY small part of the potential market. We have a known demographic and the McMillionaires aren't close to having the assets to join. Even many pro sports players aren't close.

By the way, 140K will barely buy a Marquis card in an Ultra...
 
wheelsup said:
According to wikipedia Netjets was a charter company until the late 80's, so your current business model hasn't really been around since 1964. Kinda misleading to imply that.
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Type operation is irrelevant. We have been a 135 operator since 64. We are still a 135 operator today, we just haven't allowed public charters since 87. Which is still irrelevant, the point is there is no way anyone could survive any market if they ferried more than they flew revenue. The basic premise is flawed because the sheer fleet numbers reduce ferry time required. Scheduling software reduces further the number of ferry flts. In my last few days I have had very few ferry flights. The last 5-6 have all been revenue.

Then again, this whole debate started because someone said they "heard" something. That and $.50 will get you a soda.
 
SteveC said:
How much of that loss is a write-down on the value of their jet fleets as opposed to operating loss?
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Being rather enthralled with Warren Buffet (yes, I DID read that stinkin' 900-page biography) and madly in love with investing myself, this is taken "straight from the horse's mouth..."

It's the 3rd quarter report from Berkshire Hathaway...

What can I say? I like details, especially when it deals with my money!!!

In 2009, NetJets’ revenues declined $471 million (41%) for the third quarter and $1,495 million (42%) for the first nine months as compared to 2008. The declines reflected a 79% decline in aircraft sales as well as lower flight operations revenues primarily due to a 24% decline in flight revenue hours. NetJets produced pre-tax losses in 2009 of $183 million for the third quarter and $531 million for the first nine months. The pre-tax losses in 2009 included asset writedowns and other downsizing costs of $181 million for the third quarter and $436 million for the first nine months. NetJets owns more planes than is required for its present level of operations and further downsizing costs will be incurred in the fourth quarter. However, management believes that NetJets is likely to operate at a modest profit in 2010, absent any further deterioration in the U.S. economy or negative actions directed at the ownership of private aircraft.

It's certainly a difficult time for many businesses. "Absent any further deterioration in the U.S. economy..." Tough words to read. Even the best sailors don't have any control when a hurricane hits. These execs are only hoping the storm is almost over. But sadly (contrary to MSNBC, Google, Fox News, and your local financial advisor), they, like we...simply don't have a clue when the tides will turn.

Hold on to your flying job, boys (and girls). Be happy with today.
 
NJA_Capt said:
Let's just say that I have some basic knowledge of how many customers we have, and how large the approx market is. Millionaires aside, there is a given market size and all frax combined were a VERY small part of the potential market. We have a known demographic and the McMillionaires aren't close to having the assets to join. Even many pro sports players aren't close.

By the way, 140K will barely buy a Marquis card in an Ultra...
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Correct, I went to the website and found the cheapest service available.

OUCH!!
 
But you also have to realize that not all of Netjets customers are buying the jet cards. What about Executive Jet Management? Aren't they considered a part of NetJets? All you need is basically $10,000 or less for a short one way. So how can you really determine your client demographic when the price varies so widely.
 
Italianaviator said:
But you also have to realize that not all of NetJets customers are buying the jet cards. What about Executive Jet Management? Aren't they considered a part of NetJets? All you need is basically $10,000 or less for a short one way. So how can you really determine your client demographic when the price varies so widely.
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There is no possible way to explain the intricacies of the NetJets system on a short web post.

EJM is under the NetJets, "Inc" umbrella. EJM charters are NOT considered NJA/I/EU/ME flights. EJM charters are EJM charters. EJM can/does fly NJA owners. NetJets does NOT fly EJM customers.

NetJets "Owners" are on the aircraft registrations, which make the demographic numbers very accessible. Marquis card (Marquis "Inc" is an Owner) numbers are a know quantity also.

NetJets, Inc knows exactly how many owners and card holders are in the system. I am not at liberty to discuss those numbers.

NetJets Primmer....again.

NetJets, Inc owns:
NetJets US
NetJets EU
NetJets ME
NetJets Int'l
NetJets Large Aircraft Co.
Executive Jet Management
NetJets Sales
Several other NJ(x) subsidiaries

Boris Badenov said:
Clearly you haven't bought a soda since I could get a public charter.
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I have found quite a few $.50 soda machines in my recent travels. You won't find them in a terminal or a hotel though. I know many places where they are free.
 
stormchaser said:
The declines reflected a 79% decline in aircraft sales as well as lower flight operations revenues primarily due to a 24% decline in flight revenue hours.
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Just for perspective. Yes, it has been a rough year. Ex: A 60% drop in your stocks sounds huge, until you consider they went up 600% for 6 years prior to the drop. Just sayin'​


A much improved situation is emerging at NetJets, which sells and manages fractionally-owned aircraft. This company has never had a problem growing: Revenues from flight operations have increased 596% since our purchase in 1998.

​
 
SoCalAprch said:
A little off topic but I flew with a couple people who went to Net Jets and a couple Captains have spouses over there. I didn't know much about them other than they were a good fractional that paid pretty well until I started asking questions. Its amazing to me how they could be as large as they are/were while their services were only viable to less than 1% of the population. It just doesn't seem like a very viable business when you have one of the bigger airlines in the country (fleet size and pilot group) and less than 1 person out of 100 can afford you. It just doesn't add up to me... I could see it working on a much smaller level but I think Net Jets out grew themselves and when the recession hit it effectively crippled them.
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NetJets did not just serve Americans;)

And it was not just the recession, it was all of the attacks by politicans on the Corporate Industry......
 
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