How to make it?

H

hal3529

New Member
Hi. My name is Hal. I want to become a pilot. I only have several hours of logged time. I am 36 and have been a general/electrical contractor most of my life. I have 3 children 9, 3, and 1. I have been trying to figure a way to gain time, but not move from Louisville Ky. or flight instruct for an institution. (maybe for myself) I wouldn't mind the commute to Cinncy, Indy, or Nash if need be. My wife is almost out of college and when she starts working it will allow me more time and money to play. (try a new career) I have around 50k to invest. I built my house myself, so that bill is low also. We live fairly simpley. I don't know how much longer I want to physically work so hard.

So here is my plan. Buy an older dual prop, fix it up, and try to subcontract some freight hauling with larger company's. I don't mind paying for my own insurance. While hauling look for more buisness from other people. I could also invite co pilots looking for time to pay some gas money. Is this possible?

Plan #2 Buy an old single prop and fly when ever possible. Flight train here and there. Continue construction and go to ATP after around 1000 hours to there Career Pilot Program. Hopefully by this time the airlines and economy will turn around just in time for completion. Thanks for any help you may have. Maybe a third or fourth plan?
 
hal3529 said:
Hi. My name is Hal. I want to become a pilot. I only have several hours of logged time. I am 36 and have been a general/electrical contractor most of my life. I have 3 children 9, 3, and 1. I have been trying to figure a way to gain time, but not move from Louisville Ky. or flight instruct for an institution. (maybe for myself) I wouldn't mind the commute to Cinncy, Indy, or Nash if need be. My wife is almost out of college and when she starts working it will allow me more time and money to play. (try a new career) I have around 50k to invest. I built my house myself, so that bill is low also. We live fairly simpley. I don't know how much longer I want to physically work so hard.

So here is my plan. Buy an older dual prop, fix it up, and try to subcontract some freight hauling with larger company's. I don't mind paying for my own insurance. While hauling look for more buisness from other people. I could also invite co pilots looking for time to pay some gas money. Is this possible?


Plan #2 Buy an old single prop and fly when ever possible. Flight train here and there. Continue construction and go to ATP after around 1000 hours to there Career Pilot Program. Hopefully by this time the airlines and economy will turn around just in time for completion. Thanks for any help you may have. Maybe a third or fourth plan?
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I think you should get your private pilot license and put away the remaining 40K or so for your children's college fund.
 
SoCalFlyer2 said:
I think you should get your private pilot license and put away the remaining 40K or so for your children's college fund.
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It's funny how many pilots on here tell newbies to not fly. It's probably one of the main reasons I'm no longer looking at flying as a career and more a hobby. Funny, I went to a website made to help pilots and it's convinced me to not be one.
 
No doubt. I built two houses. One was a spec, one I live in. Learned four trades. Put a younger wife through college. Kissed major butt along the way to sell jobs etc.. just to have this opportunity. I want to fly. If I was taking a loan people would say save some large percentage first. Ok here I am.
 
hal3529 said:
No doubt. I built two houses. One was a spec, one I live in. Learned four trades. Put a younger wife through college. Kissed major butt along the way to sell jobs etc.. just to have this opportunity. I want to fly. If I was taking a loan people would say save some large percentage first. Ok here I am.
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Its a good start to get your PPL and then go from there to decide if you want to make yourself a career pilot. Save yourself tens of thousands if you decide its not what you want to do.
 
Is subcontract work available from some of these larger freight companys? What kind of plane would be the best for this?
 
hal3529 said:
Is subcontract work available from some of these larger freight companys? What kind of plane would be the best for this?
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Yes, they do sub out freight, but not really to a small 1 pilot/ 1 plane 135 certificate. You just done have the infrastructure to be able to provide what fedex and UPS need, and that is reliability. What happens if your plane breaks? Ameriflight, Wiggins and the like have spare planes all across the country. You have just the one.

The second thing to consider is that to fly IFR 135, (which you need to fly anything reliably) you need 1200 hours at a minimum, at which point you are very close to what you would need to be hired at a regional.
 
hal3529 said:
Hi. My name is Hal. I want to become a pilot. I only have several hours of logged time. I am 36 and have been a general/electrical contractor most of my life. I have 3 children 9, 3, and 1. I have been trying to figure a way to gain time, but not move from Louisville Ky. or flight instruct for an institution. (maybe for myself) I wouldn't mind the commute to Cinncy, Indy, or Nash if need be. My wife is almost out of college and when she starts working it will allow me more time and money to play. (try a new career) I have around 50k to invest. I built my house myself, so that bill is low also. We live fairly simpley. I don't know how much longer I want to physically work so hard.

So here is my plan. Buy an older dual prop, fix it up, and try to subcontract some freight hauling with larger company's. I don't mind paying for my own insurance. While hauling look for more buisness from other people. I could also invite co pilots looking for time to pay some gas money. Is this possible?

Plan #2 Buy an old single prop and fly when ever possible. Flight train here and there. Continue construction and go to ATP after around 1000 hours to there Career Pilot Program. Hopefully by this time the airlines and economy will turn around just in time for completion. Thanks for any help you may have. Maybe a third or fourth plan?
Click to expand...

Like others have said, first off get your private pilot license. While doing that, take some time to really investigate the piloting profession and see if it is really for you. So many get into it because of romantic silk scarf notions, and then find out that the reality is nothing the like fantasy (isn't that always the case? :cool:).

You sound like an entrenpeneur, and I respect that. Have you considered starting an aviation business instead? It's tough to make a go of one, but if you can, that is where the real money is. The money isn't in sitting in the operator's seat, as many here will tell you.
 
Thanks to everyone so far. I know things are rough in almost all the trades right now. Most of my construction friends aren't busy. I like trying new things. I was hoping that someone willing to work hard could avoid making no money for the first 1200 hrs or so, or moving. I guess not. I was hoping having a plane available could entise someone to overlook the lack of experience. I can't get started until my signifigant other starts working so any more info or opinions would be appreciated.
 
First off, I recommend you go read every page of the following website:

http://thetruthabouttheprofession.weebly.com/index.html

There is more to professional flying than just the airlines. But that site gives a pretty good look into the reality of what airline life is like.

As far as your option 1 goes, as they said, it can be done. It can, but its not the norm and it will be anything but cheap to get it going. And lets not forget that you want to switch to flying because you don't want to work so physically hard anymore. Running your own one-man freight charter outfit is going to require a lot more physical work and long hours than you probably think.

As for pro flying in general, I have only one thought. You're 36, you've got a wife and 3 young kids, you're starting from zero as far as flight experience goes, you live in fly-over country and you don't want to move. I won't say it'll be impossible for you to find a lucrative and enjoyable career as a pro pilot with those criteria, but the cards are stacked against you to say the least.

I can completely relate to getting older and not wanting to beat your body up at work every day. I can't say that I believe professional aviation would be the best alternative to that, but I also understand having a dream and wanting to go after it. So rather than trying to talk you out of it, I'll say do as much research as you can before making any big decisions. Good luck.
 
Hal, Your best bet to get a charter sub contract is with medical service companies that need hazmat couriered. The only issue is that it would take quite a bit of work to build up or buy into a 135 op, then obtain a contract, and also to fly said plane as PIC you would need to meet the 135 min requirements (1200TT, 500XC, etc..). The other issue with that is that companies that fly out of Bowman and Standiford already have those flights/ contracts covered. It would be a hard market to break into.

The flight training market in the Louisville area and Indy area are both pretty saturated. Clark County and Bowman both have numerous flight training operations, some of which are well established. Indy has a training facility at every airport other than IND. A lot of them have deeper pockets as well.
 
Finish your private certificate first, then if you still have the passion and want-to to move forward, you'll probably want to get your instrument, commercial and multi afterwards. If you can, just fly with a local FBO. You'll save money and your certificate results in the same information on it as if you'd spent a bundle at ATP or some other school. If you want to knock it out relatively quickly then go to ATP or somewhere like that. You'll spend more but they'll get the job done, and in a hurry if need be.

Then think about getting your own airplane and starting work. There is quite a process behind legally and safely contracting your airplane to fly other people, or their things around, you can't just knock on their door and say "call me when you need something flown somewhere". A lot of the newer start-up companies buy old certificates to operate on, some get their own. Investigate which option better suits you. Be careful about offering to too many business initially, the FAA can look at this as a "common carrier"and if you don't have all of your i's dotted and t's crossed, you'll be a subject of a lot of interest for your local FSDO and not in a good way. You'll need to contact the FAA when you wish to do this and get their help. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you try and do this without their knolwedge or approval. At all. Ever.

Keep your family in mind. I'm not sure what sort of pad you guys have, or savings you have put away for your kids but don't go into aviation to make money. As a pilot, you can eventually make a decent living but that is years after you start and have put in long days and nights instructing, flying freight, and working your way up. Make sure you have their complete support. This is not an easy industry and you will need it.

Don't rush into it. Take the time to get comfortable with the different airplanes, and especially the IFR environment and flying in IMC. Particularly in the midwest. We get some hardcore weather, with thunderstorms in the summer and you name it in the spring/fall/winter. It isn't something to mess around with and "hoping someone will overlook your lack of experience because you have an airplane" will likely get you killed. I hate to be blunt but this isn't a process you want to rush. You have a family to think about and you owe it to them to be there and do this job right. That means taking the time to put the effort into becoming a safe, and competent pilot.

Oh, never charge anybody to sit with you. If you want to split the cost and build time and experience with someone while you are building time, that is one thing but don't bring them along on a money making flight if you get your business going to pay for the gas. Help people behind you, don't take advantage of them.

I won't tell you not to become a pilot or pursue what you want to do. I love to fly and I absolutely, unequivocally cannot imagine doing anything else with my professional life. If you truly want it, then go get it. Take the time to do it right.

Best of luck, keep us posted!
 
I didn't mean take advantage of copilots. What I meant was the price for myself and plane fee would be gas money and maintenace costs to try to sell buisness to begin with. If I had a partner they would have to contribute at first. I have always been overly fair and generous with employees and co-workers. I would be working for free also, or just flying for the hours with no cargo. Since I pay for the plane, insurance, and hanger the co pilot pays the gas. Part of wanting a fixer upper is nothing teaches you about a machine more than repairing one. Being a pilot definitely is a hard career compared to most bs degree requiring jobs, but it is better than a concrete laborer, sewer snaker, house crawler under, jack hammerer etc etc. Those guys have it rough. Starting at 20g is living high on hog for many poor people in the construction industry.
One of my main concerns about being in the construction industry is competing with slave labor. A good friend of mine has a starter/alternator rebuild shop. Ten years ago he had around 25 employees. Now he has around 5. Chinese starters are too cheap. Hotels are bringing in bus loads of central americans to do their remodeling. They give them room and board. They work two twelve hour shifts and complete 2 month long jobs in two weeks than move on to the next one. How am I supposed to compete with that? Half the time hotels are receiving free remodel money from insurance fraud to begin with. The workers only make $70 a 12 hour day. Union workers make more than that before morning break. I don't blame the foreighn workers most of them are good nice people. The greedy owners, supervisors, and politicians are ruining many lives only to make a little extra money. I was hoping piloting would be safe for awhile. thanks
 
hal3529 said:
Part of wanting a fixer upper is nothing teaches you about a machine more than repairing one.
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Something to keep in mind about this idea is that you are required to have an A&P do maintenance on your aircraft. There are some things you can do if its your own plane, but if your going to use it for commercial use the regulations become much stricter. So, if thats your game plan, set some time and money aside to work on your A&P in addition to your airmen certificates.
 
Something else to keep in mind is that there are many fixer upper airplanes out there which will cost more to fix/restore then they'll ever be worth. This is true even if you hold an A&P cert and donate all the labor.
 
hal3529 said:
I didn't mean take advantage of copilots. What I meant was the price for myself and plane fee would be gas money and maintenace costs to try to sell buisness to begin with. If I had a partner they would have to contribute at first. I have always been overly fair and generous with employees and co-workers. I would be working for free also, or just flying for the hours with no cargo. Since I pay for the plane, insurance, and hanger the co pilot pays the gas. Part of wanting a fixer upper is nothing teaches you about a machine more than repairing one. Being a pilot definitely is a hard career compared to most bs degree requiring jobs, but it is better than a concrete laborer, sewer snaker, house crawler under, jack hammerer etc etc. Those guys have it rough. Starting at 20g is living high on hog for many poor people in the construction industry.
One of my main concerns about being in the construction industry is competing with slave labor. A good friend of mine has a starter/alternator rebuild shop. Ten years ago he had around 25 employees. Now he has around 5. Chinese starters are too cheap. Hotels are bringing in bus loads of central americans to do their remodeling. They give them room and board. They work two twelve hour shifts and complete 2 month long jobs in two weeks than move on to the next one. How am I supposed to compete with that? Half the time hotels are receiving free remodel money from insurance fraud to begin with. The workers only make $70 a 12 hour day. Union workers make more than that before morning break. I don't blame the foreighn workers most of them are good nice people. The greedy owners, supervisors, and politicians are ruining many lives only to make a little extra money. I was hoping piloting would be safe for awhile. thanks
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Having a partner in your business and having someone sit right seat and pay for gas are two separate things entirely. If you ask someone to ride along with you and they pay the gas, calling them your "partner" is just a way of rationalizing your doing the wrong thing. If someone has to pay to gain the "experience" of sitting in the airplane or flying with/for you, you are taking advantage of them. If they truly help you invest in every aspect of the company, and build it from the ground up, that may be different. Also, you can plan to charge what you need to cover the gas, insurance, hangar fees, etc in the fees for your service. It is a cost of doing business. You don't see FO's at airlines or charter gigs (for the most part) paying to sit in the right seat or paying for gas. Don't do it for free. Don't take away from the other professionals in the industry by doing that. You will potentially be providing a service to another business with your own buisness, you deserve to be paid for that.

What others have said about investing in a "fixer-upper" is true, a lot of the time it will not give you the return you are looking for. You will also either have to get an A&P certificate, or hire one to do most of the work on the airplane. Wanting to work on and learn about your airplane is one thing, but without the proper credentials, you are setting yourself up for trouble/failure down the line.

As far as the other issues, I'm not sure where the issues facing construction come into play at this point but keep in mind aviation is a very unique industry. What works in aviation will probably not work in construction, and vice versa.
 
OldTownPilot said:
On a daily basis, or a "oh crap, we need these boxes moved stat, and 'Joe's 421 charter' is the only way for it to happen" type of scenario?
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at least back when I was flying freight, there were a few guys (pilot/owner/mechanic types) who had their own 135 certified planes and did daily runs outstationed in the boonies where they live.
 
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