A150K
Well-Known Member
aimen to that
How to get a job referral from JC.
- Thread starter USMCmech
- Start date
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"Talk about REALLY accelerated courses though - like those guys in WW2..."
I think the difference is the acceptable loss rate during WWII and now. How many pilots got killed in training and how many airplanes just flew in to the side of a mountain IMC? It was war and a high level of loss of life was part of it. Today, we'd never allow such a high rate of attrition.
It's amazing looking at the old WWII movies footage. If a plane crashed on the runway they just took a dozer to it and didn't seem to think twice.
I think the difference is the acceptable loss rate during WWII and now. How many pilots got killed in training and how many airplanes just flew in to the side of a mountain IMC? It was war and a high level of loss of life was part of it. Today, we'd never allow such a high rate of attrition.
It's amazing looking at the old WWII movies footage. If a plane crashed on the runway they just took a dozer to it and didn't seem to think twice.
WacoFan
Bigly
Excellent point. Do you believe that the finished product of this training - given the attrition - was a superior product?
GlenA
Senior Chicken Counter
I hear you on that. The small flight school I did my PPL in did not have anything with an NDB, and ATP doesn't either (where I did everything else). First time I actually got to practice with an ndb was when I was a CFI. my school had a Frasca 141 that we could use as much as we wanted, so me and a few other deprived instructors sat there and taught it to ourselves. definitely a mistake to not teach that stuff early on.
Not a fan of the glass cockpit training from PPL either. They feed people lines about how all the new aircraft have this glass tech, and if you don't have glass time you won't succeed or get any job. I beg to differ, seeing how I am currently flying around in a 1957 182... the round gauges will be around for a looong time yet.
jerrywhite7
Well-Known Member
My thought is, why teach students an NDB (specially non career students) they will never use it. I was taught it, and spent a good 5 hours doing no gyro NDB holds!! Why?!?! I'm not sure!!
Heck the place I teach now parttime doesnt even have ADF that work anymore. Our Metro does not have an ADF in it. . .
My thougth is why teach a PVT instrument pilot NDB approaches. They will NEVER use them. Infact any airport that might have had on will have a GPS overlay on it. And I know you are going to say, "what happens when the GPS goes down in flight?" Well to that I say, and teach, go to your alt airport that has a VOR or ILS and call it a day!
Why waste your students time and money so that they can have a "right of passage". . . to me that is dumb!!
I guess if you have a student that says "I want to learn how to do it" then great. . . go teach it . . . (after I remember it myself) . . . lets see correction = deflection or something like that. . right?!?!
I do agree, teach them in something other than glass if you can. . at least one or two lessons in steam gagues. . .
Just my two cents!
Heck the place I teach now parttime doesnt even have ADF that work anymore. Our Metro does not have an ADF in it. . .
My thougth is why teach a PVT instrument pilot NDB approaches. They will NEVER use them. Infact any airport that might have had on will have a GPS overlay on it. And I know you are going to say, "what happens when the GPS goes down in flight?" Well to that I say, and teach, go to your alt airport that has a VOR or ILS and call it a day!
Why waste your students time and money so that they can have a "right of passage". . . to me that is dumb!!
I guess if you have a student that says "I want to learn how to do it" then great. . . go teach it . . . (after I remember it myself) . . . lets see correction = deflection or something like that. . right?!?!
I do agree, teach them in something other than glass if you can. . at least one or two lessons in steam gagues. . .
Just my two cents!
kiloalpha
Well-Known Member
I learned to shoot NDB on a fixed card Skyhawk during my initial instrument training. After I graduated, I never touched and airplane that had an ADF for the next 4 years. And now, I'll probably be shooting them in Nebraska in our Metros. That training paid off!
In fact, I had a perfect outbound, PT, and inbound course on my checkride!
In fact, I had a perfect outbound, PT, and inbound course on my checkride!
jerrywhite7
Well-Known Member
Yeah, many cargo/regional or 135 ops still shoot them. . . My deal was more for private only instrument guys. I know in order to work for Great Lakes you need to be able to shoot an NDB approach.
Have fun in in the Metro. . . welcome to a "MANS" airplane!
Bumblebee
Commodore
nice!
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
I shoot NDB approaches fairly often, sometimes that's the only instrument approach you got. For example guymon, ok and alpine, tx.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
Hah, haha, nice up there in the right seat of your metro ivory tower?
When i got my IR back in 2006 I was told i would never need to do an NDB approach. Fast forward a couple of years and im flying a caravan with no GPS based at a field with only an NDB approach. I dont know who you fly for, but at most places you wouldnt last long if you told your boss you cant get into a field because you dont know how.
A good pilot is able to use all options available. Not wanting to learn something because you *think* you'll never use it is just setting yourself up.
[modhat]let's try not to get in another pissing match here mmmK? Some of the best pilots don't even fly instruments at all anymore, so get off your high horse. [/modhat]
KLB
Well-Known Member
Having a movable card makes them a lot easier.
I've shot two or three in real conditions with my current company.
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
Didnt mean for it to come off like that, and im the last person that would say sweet instrument skillz makes a great pilot. Was just trying to point out that you should never say you'll never use something.
I think as long as NDB approaches are around, pilots should be proficient in their use. Doesnt make me billy bad ass because i had to do it, I was just told the same thing that jerrywhite said, and it turned out my very first NDB approach was in actual, thats all.
jerrywhite7
Well-Known Member
SOOOO . .if anyone wants a job referral . . . .:dunno:
KLB
Well-Known Member
Rosstafari
Hello, this is Orlando mayor Buddy Dyer
As I recall the ground school you taught, the NDB part went something like this.
"Ooookay... next we've got... hmm. NDB. That stands for... something. I think it's 'No Damn Benefit'. Ha, see what I did there? Oh man. ...all right, let's move on to VORs."
jerrywhite7
Well-Known Member
IM BUSTED!!!!!:dunno:
but you guys were private pilot students!!!
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
I know the topic has somewhat strayed by this page count, but I wanted to put in a couple of cents worth. I've gotten a couple of "automated" requests for recommendations from Airlineapps recently. That in itself isn't a big deal. That is how the system works, after all.
I just feel that if you want a recommendation from someone, talk to them about it first, before they get the request from the website. Call to talk with the person writing your recommendation, or email them to set up a time to call. I know that it is really easy to communicate these days via email, but some things should still be done as close to in person as possible. If you both live in the same city, go to lunch together and talk it over.
Maybe I'm off base here, but it was a real turn off when I got those requests out of the blue. Trust me, you want the person writing the recommendation to have positive feelings about you as they fill in the form! You don't want the dreaded lukewarm recommendation. "Bob is what I would consider an average pilot, and has adequate personal skills. You could do worse than hiring him."
G
I just feel that if you want a recommendation from someone, talk to them about it first, before they get the request from the website. Call to talk with the person writing your recommendation, or email them to set up a time to call. I know that it is really easy to communicate these days via email, but some things should still be done as close to in person as possible. If you both live in the same city, go to lunch together and talk it over.
Maybe I'm off base here, but it was a real turn off when I got those requests out of the blue. Trust me, you want the person writing the recommendation to have positive feelings about you as they fill in the form! You don't want the dreaded lukewarm recommendation. "Bob is what I would consider an average pilot, and has adequate personal skills. You could do worse than hiring him."
G
texas_pilot
Well-Known Member
But if his Daddy is a FedEx Captain?