How to get a job referral from JC.

KLB said:
Well he probably needed more time to get comfortable with the NDB approaches.:D
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I know I would....I went to ATP and the first time I saw an NDB approach was in the sim as a new hire at OO...fortunately my sim partner knew how to do them well, and I got a lesson from him...then NAILED it LOL....no big deal with no wind...I imagine doing one for real in a stiff wind would be another thing altogether!

I bet part of the cost was the cost of the manpower to trian as well.
 
mshunter said:
Never met the man, but I do like his style. I would let my students spin themselves if it got to that point (with me in the airplane of course). When it got to that point, I'd hold the input in for them if they didn't seem terrified and start talking real quick. Then "do you want to see that again?" I wish the requirment to demonstrate spins was still in the PTS. I think it should be there for the commercial level as well.
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I was 13 when I did stalls, secondary stalls and spins with Grandpa in the Chief. It was the lesson immediately after ground reference maneuvers - I think it was the fifth hour. Right before doing touch and goes in earnest which was sixth and seventh. It was all geared on solo at 8-10 hours and followed pretty closely to the syllabus he had learning to fly in the AAC in WW2. He said they trained guys to fly P-51's, Corsairs and bombers at 200 or so hours that way...he didn't really see any room for improvement. Also, when flying the open-Waco we had a one-way gosport like the AAC had back in WW2. His end had a funnel he would yell into and it would go to the ear-cups of my flying helmet via a tube from the rear cockpit to the front hole (think of the old tin-can and string telephones you made as a kid). When he was showing it to me I made the comment "Hey...where's my tube so I can talk to you?" His answer - "You really don't have any need to talk to me at all - you only have a need to hear what I say and do it immediately". Alrighty grandpa! He was obviously a SNAP.
 
Bumblebee said:
love it....we should have those for children in restaurants...
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It was really awesome when I'd "<edited word for "mess up". He'd yell into the tube "You're messing up! Try again!!" and then if I "mess up" again, his end of the tube would go into the slip-stream and it would slam my ear cups into my ears - like getting your ears boxed. That's how they did it in the AAC.

I will say, he was a LOT nicer to his paying students that weren't me. I think he was a lot more hooched up about how I did things than others.
 
What about making fun of Jersey?

How much does that cost? I might be able to afford it. :rotfl:
 
WacoFan said:
I was 13 when I did stalls, secondary stalls and spins with Grandpa in the Chief. It was the lesson immediately after ground reference maneuvers - I think it was the fifth hour. Right before doing touch and goes in earnest which was sixth and seventh. It was all geared on solo at 8-10 hours and followed pretty closely to the syllabus he had learning to fly in the AAC in WW2. He said they trained guys to fly P-51's, Corsairs and bombers at 200 or so hours that way...he didn't really see any room for improvement. Also, when flying the open-Waco we had a one-way gosport like the AAC had back in WW2. His end had a funnel he would yell into and it would go to the ear-cups of my flying helmet via a tube from the rear cockpit to the front hole (think of the old tin-can and string telephones you made as a kid). When he was showing it to me I made the comment "Hey...where's my tube so I can talk to you?" His answer - "You really don't have any need to talk to me at all - you only have a need to hear what I say and do it immediately". Alrighty grandpa! He was obviously a SNAP.
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You know, my wife's grandpa did essentially the same job in WWII. He would have flown solid military, but they wouldn't let him join up because he is full blooded Chinese. He has old flight training class yearbooks with pictures of the cadets and instructors and cartoons of flight school happenings. REALLY cool stuff.
 
Roger said:
You know, my wife's grandpa did essentially the same job in WWII. He would have flown solid military, but they wouldn't let him join up because he is full blooded Chinese. He has old flight training class yearbooks with pictures of the cadets and instructors and cartoons of flight school happenings. REALLY cool stuff.
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I think it is kind of strange. You look at the accelerated courses today - ATP and such, and people wonder if that is the way to go. Talk about REALLY accelerated courses though - like those guys in WW2. Going from never having sat in an airplane to primary (Stearman - solo in 8-10 hours) then BT-13's, T-6's, then multi if that was your thing. This included instrument, aerobatics, etc. All around 200 hours. Seems like they did a pretty good job - maybe a flight school could replicate that today.
 
WacoFan said:
I think it is kind of strange. You look at the accelerated courses today - ATP and such, and people wonder if that is the way to go. Talk about REALLY accelerated courses though - like those guys in WW2. Going from never having sat in an airplane to primary (Stearman - solo in 8-10 hours) then BT-13's, T-6's, then multi if that was your thing. This included instrument, aerobatics, etc. All around 200 hours. Seems like they did a pretty good job - maybe a flight school could replicate that today.
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I know, right? All they need is a lot of tough love. Although I kind of wonder what percent of the population today is REALLY capable of doing what it takes to pull that off. I think we've become too soft and not mechanically inclined at all.
 
Fly_Unity said:
I referred a Flight Instructor once (that had 1500 hours of pattern time in a glass cockpit) to our 135 company. Big mistake. After spending 20 K on his training he quit 3 weeks later because our 310 did not have a GPS and he had to do an NDB approach in light icing conditions. Im much more careful who I refer.
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MikeD said:
Oh the horror!

Man....what a candyass. Although I'm seeing more and more pilots like this in my travels...
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Curious about this. This is obviously due to a lack of training - but if the cat never learned how to fly an NDB, I'm wondering why.

From what I can tell (and I am not IR, so I don't know) NDB approaches aren't real common these days and getting less common as time goes by. Also - pilots - at least private pilots (and I'm guessing some IR) seem to be taught to fear icing as much as level-5 thunderstorms.

My point - it doesn't seem like a particular flaw in the person himself - rather he was being asked to do something he wasn't comfortable with, not because he couldn't learn it, but because the "fear factor" was incredibly high for him.

Makes me want to start a new thread, actually....
 
killbilly said:
Curious about this. This is obviously due to a lack of training - but if the cat never learned how to fly an NDB, I'm wondering why.

From what I can tell (and I am not IR, so I don't know) NDB approaches aren't real common these days and getting less common as time goes by. Also - pilots - at least private pilots (and I'm guessing some IR) seem to be taught to fear icing as much as level-5 thunderstorms.

My point - it doesn't seem like a particular flaw in the person himself - rather he was being asked to do something he wasn't comfortable with, not because he couldn't learn it, but because the "fear factor" was incredibly high for him.

Makes me want to start a new thread, actually....
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A lot of new airplanes are not equiped with ADF's. I suck royally at the one or two NDB approaches I have to shoot on checkrides every six months.:)
 
killbilly said:
Curious about this. This is obviously due to a lack of training - but if the cat never learned how to fly an NDB, I'm wondering why.

From what I can tell (and I am not IR, so I don't know) NDB approaches aren't real common these days and getting less common as time goes by. Also - pilots - at least private pilots (and I'm guessing some IR) seem to be taught to fear icing as much as level-5 thunderstorms.

My point - it doesn't seem like a particular flaw in the person himself - rather he was being asked to do something he wasn't comfortable with, not because he couldn't learn it, but because the "fear factor" was incredibly high for him.

Makes me want to start a new thread, actually....
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A lack of knowing the basics, and an obvious overreliance on crutch technology such as a GPS. Some people like this don't seem to realize that planes actually once flew without things like GPS and TCAS.........and, *gasp*......did it safely. :eek:
 
MikeD said:
A lack of knowing the basics, and an obvious overreliance on crutch technology such as a GPS. Some people like this don't seem to realize that planes actually once flew without things like GPS and TCAS.........and, *gasp*......did it safely. :eek:
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I just can't take the Jake Busey avatar seriously.
:D
 
MikeD said:
I refuse to answer anything more from you on the subject in this thread........since you decided to open a new one on us.

:D
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I'm famous for derailing threads and trying not to cause a MASSIVE derail in this one, since USMCmech made some very valid points.

So...on referrals....

I think a lot of referrals - not just in aviation - are about respect. Someone respects you enough to walk in your resume', you have to have enough respect not to make them look bad. The mafia used to have the vouching system. You vouch for the wrong guy, you both get whacked.

Not such a bad system, metaphorically speaking.
 
WacoFan said:
After TWA my grandpa decided to instruct. For primary students he wouldn't teach or even let them use a nav-aid until they could plan and do a cross country using dead reckoning and pilotage as well as a whiz wheel (no electronic E6B's or calculators - batteries can fail you know). He would be aghast today. Of course, he thought you should do a spin before solo as well. He was a little old-school.
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I will admit my CFI was the total opposite. We did the initial duals using pilotage and dead reckoning, but you could tell he couldn't wait to teach me how to use the Garmin 430..My way of thinking is to use all you can (yes that includes GPS, I am the proud owner of a small VFR only Garmin 96C), but you better know how to get to point B if all fails...I personally understand both ways of thinking though.
 
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