How to become an airline pilot?

Mkizz

New Member
Hey guys, Mkizz here. My name is Andy from Nor-Cal and 19 years old currently attending community college, and seeking a way to study on flying and becoming a commercial pilot, or fedex or ups pilot even. I have no idea where to start from, so I thought I would take my first step by joining and posting on this forum. Here is where my problem holds me from becoming a pilot. I have researched on how to become a pilot but its either paying loads of money for flight school which I lack in or joining a navy or air force, and I am not eligible to join Navy or Air force due to lack of Green Card, and not enough cash to obtain private flying license.

If this is the case where you dont have money and dont want to or cant join the military, what other route are there? I am really determined on becoming a pilot, but I just don't know where to start. Maybe is there a UC or state university or even public college that has a flight program in the school withought having to pay loads of cash like flight school?

Opinion/Suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading and I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks!
 
Maybe is there a UC or state university or even public college that has a flight program in the school withought having to pay loads of cash like flight school?

There are schools that do that but you will pay WAY MORE than if you go the part 61 route. A LOT more! I suggest you call some flight schools at the nearest airports and ask them about the costs associated with flight training. Lots of people don't have the money for flight training. It's very expensive. You'll most likely have to pull out loans to pay for your training. Getting your certificates and ratings is very expensive. I would definitely call a few nearby flight schools and talk to them about what's required and the associated costs.

Lastly, welcome to the forums!
 
hello and thank you for sharing your information and also for the welcome.
so as my first route would it be obtaining the Private flight license would be the first route? if so any idea how much that might roughly cost?
 
so as my first route would it be obtaining the Private flight license would be the first route? if so any idea how much that might roughly cost?

That's a good idea. That way you don't put the cart in front of the horse. Until you start flying regularly you really have no idea if it's what you will want to do for a living (despite what you may think now). Get the private, go out and fly for fun a bunch and see if it's for you. In NorCal you probably are looking at $5000 to $8000 to get your Private, depending on where you go and what sort of airplanes they have.
 
i see. If possible could you tell me all the procedures on a way of becoming a pilot maybe? I would greatly appreciate it, and maybe also how much it would cost and time. Thanks. Just trying to see the basic idea of how long and money it would cost me
 
i see. If possible could you tell me all the procedures on a way of becoming a pilot maybe? I would greatly appreciate it, and maybe also how much it would cost and time. Thanks. Just trying to see the basic idea of how long and money it would cost me

Like was said above, I'd suggest getting the private license first. About the only way to do it unless you're independently wealthy or you don't mind taking a few years working on it is to take out loans. You can just work a job and pay as you go, but it'll take a while. That's how I did my private and instrument, and it took me two years to get both of them. That was before fuel went through the roof.

Another thing you might want to do is call one of the local flight schools and set up a "discovery flight" or "intro flight." This is (at most places) a discounted flight that is essentially your first lesson in an airplane with an instructor. It's pretty much taking off, having fun with the plane and landing. After that, you can bombard the instructor with specific questions about flying in general and the school.

Costs are gonna vary from school to school. The smaller, independently owned schools are generally less expensive than the larger academies, which are sometimes cheaper or about the same as the Cadillac schools like ERAU. Fact is, the training you get depends more on the instructor than the name on the door of the school. If you find an instructor you click with, don't pass him or her by just because they instruct at Jim's Flight School and Bait Shop instead of UND, ATP or ERAU. It's possible you go to one of the more expensive schools and not find an instructor that meshes well with your personality or work ethic. Once you've got the ratings, unless there's a networking connection at the airline you're trying to get to, no one is really going to care if you did your trainiing at ERAU, ATP or Bubba Joe's. When I ask my FOs where they did their training, it's essentially small talk to fill dead air in the flight deck. People that do the hiring probably care even less.

If you want a ball park figure on how much it's gonna cost, in the past www.allatps.com has been a decent place to start for a price figure. It can be higher or lower depending on where you go, but that's a good general starting point, IMO.

There are tons of different paths to take to get on with a major or someone like FedEx or UPS. Keep in mind none of them are going to be very short. Don't expect to finish up your ratings and be flying for one of those guys within a year or so. I finished up my flight training back in 05, and I'm still waiting on the call to interview at a major after flying for a regional for 4+ years.
 
If you're living with your parents still it's a perfect opportunity to get a couple jobs and work like crazy to pay as you go for your pilot certs. That's how I did it and ended up with very little debt. Combining school with flying is hard on the wallet, best to shop around the local flight schools, find an instructor you like, and take it from there :)
 
i see, thank you guys. I'll work on the private license first and take next step from there. But about contacting a local airport for the training..uhm..I live in san jose, do I just call the San Jose Airport?? and ask them for the training course or something?
 
San Jose International dosen't have many training facilities there. Reid Hill View is better. If you don't mind the drive Hayward has decent prices and does not have the air traffic that can keep you on the ground.
 
airnav.com then search for San Jose - SJC; near the bottom of the page you will find a listing of the local flight schools. Also look into other nearby airports because if they're cheaper it may be worth the extra drive time.
 
i see, thank you guys. I'll work on the private license first and take next step from there. But about contacting a local airport for the training..uhm..I live in san jose, do I just call the San Jose Airport?? and ask them for the training course or something?
here's a link to a bunh of diff schools in the san jose area.

none are at the san jose airport but smaller airports in the vincinity

http://www.advantage-aviation.com/learn_to_fly.php

http://www.flysundance.org/learn_to_fly.html

http://www.wvfc.org/

http://www.niceairaviation.com/flight_training.htm

http://www.flystanford.com/flight_training.html (this is a flying club I
believe)

http://www.niceairaviation.com/flight_training.htm

http://www.aerodynamicaviation.com/training.php

I'm sure someone from the area will chime in with better more localized information. I live in Florida that's just what I could come up with on the internet (with Airnav and Runwayfinder)
 
First thing to learn is that passenger airline pilots are only one part of this industry.

As you noted there are the major freight airlines like UPS. There are also other freight companies. Some fly 747s all the way down to small light airplanes.

There is also corporate charter, and private companies that have their own plane(s).

And a hundred other flying jobs like firefighting, pipeline patrol, bush flying in the mountains, you name it.

Take the time to educate yourself about all the different jobs that you can do as a pilot.


I am not eligible to join Navy or Air force due to lack of Green Card,

If you need to, enlist in the military and get your citizenship that way. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but your local recruiter can help you.

Also, you can get the GI bill to pay for some of your flight training. Or you could finish your degree and try to get a pilot slot from the military after you graduate.
 
If he doesnt have his green card yet then there is a chance he doesnt have the right to work legally in the US (he didnt mention his exact immigration status). Airlines dont generally sponsor visas for foreign pilots. Before he starts paying money for flight training he needs to be 100% sure he can be hired by airlines. This means he needs to get the green card before he starts paying for flight training. If the Air Force and Navy wont take you, you should try the Marine Corps or Army. Before you invest a lot of money in flight training, it is best to get the green card. Flying is extremely expensive. It is a lot of money to spend if only to find out that you cannot do anything with your licenses.
 
If he doesnt have his green card yet then there is a chance he doesnt have the right to work legally in the US (he didnt mention his exact immigration status). Airlines dont generally sponsor visas for foreign pilots. Before he starts paying money for flight training he needs to be 100% sure he can be hired by airlines. This means he needs to get the green card before he starts paying for flight training. If the Air Force and Navy wont take you, you should try the Marine Corps or Army. Before you invest a lot of money in flight training, it is best to get the green card. Flying is extremely expensive. It is a lot of money to spend if only to find out that you cannot do anything with your licenses.


if you are not legal in the US to attend school or to live TSA will not grant you the AFSP entry to be allowed to get your certificates and ratings
 
if you are not legal in the US to attend school or to live TSA will not grant you the AFSP entry to be allowed to get your certificates and ratings

Missed that part, and caught it on the go around. It's been a LOOOONG time since I looked at TSA rules for flight training, but I remember having to make copies of tons of stuff and keep them on file to prove my students were legal to train in the US.
 
Missed that part, and caught it on the go around. It's been a LOOOONG time since I looked at TSA rules for flight training, but I remember having to make copies of tons of stuff and keep them on file to prove my students were legal to train in the US.


it's a pain in the a**. it's also 130 dollars extra for every single rating/certificate (private,instrument,commercial,cfi,cfii,mei,atp)

not much in the grand scheme of things but it's something else.

not to mention the month waiting period everytime you apply for a rating at which time you can't fly...
it's a pain in the ass.

[modhat]bro you can say ass here, but don't bypass the profanity filter...type out what you want to say, and if it stays, you're golden...thanks! [/modhat]
 
If possible could you tell me all the procedures on a way of becoming a pilot maybe?

Ok, I cribbed this from my old lesson plans and handouts, and I know that a simple 'Google' search would bring this up, but I couldn't help myself:

So, Mkizz, to become a pilot, the first step is to earn your private pilot's license and to do that you must meet the following requirements:

REQUIREMENTS FOR THE PRIVATE PILOT CERTIFICATE
Per 14CFR 61.103-61.109

- At Least 17 Years of Age
- Read, Write, and Speak the English Language
1.) Obtain a Third Class Medical Certificate (also student pilot certificate)
2.) FAA Private Pilot Written Exam passed (70% or greater score)
3.) Flight Training:
40 Hours Total Time to include:
20 Hours DUAL instruction (minimum) to include:
- 3 Hours Cross Country Training
- 3 Hours of Flying by reference to Instruments
- 3 Hours of Night Flying
- 10 Takeoffs and Landings to a full stop at night
- 1 Night Cross-Country Flight (minimum of 100 nm total length)
10 Hours of SOLO flight to include:
- 5 Hours of Solo Cross-Country Flight
- To include one solo cross-country flight with a minimum length of 150
nm (3 full stop landings at 3 different airports, 1 leg a minimum of 50
nm, straight line, from the point of origin)
- 3 Takeoffs and Landings (minimum) at a tower controlled field
3 Hours of Flight Training (Dual) within 60 Days preceding the date of the practical exam
4.) Complete the Private Pilot Practical Exam (oral and practical exam) with a FAA Designated Examiner

So, that's the requirements for the whole license... but what about just soloing (flying by yourself for the first time) in your local airport area????


SOLO FLIGHT REQUIRMENTS:

Take an Aeronautical Knowledge Test Per CFR 61.87 covering....
• Applicable sections of Part 61 and 91 of 14CFR
• Airspace rules and procedures for solo operations
• Flight Characteristics for Make and Model of Aircraft Flown
(at conclusion of test, instructor must review all incorrect answers with the student)
Flight Training
Per CFR 61.87: (applicable night training for Night Solo Endorsement)
• Pre-Flight Procedures
• Taxing and Run-ups
• Takeoff Procedures (Normal and Crosswind)
• Straight and Level Flight (w/turns in both directions)
• Climbs and Climbing Turns
• Flight and various speeds, cruise to slow flight
• Stalls, entry and recovery
• Emergency Procedures
• Approach to landing with a simulated engine failure
• Ground Reference Maneuvers
• Descents, with and without turns
• Airport Traffic Patterns – Entry and Departure Procedures
• Collision avoidance, wind shear avoidance, and wake turbulence avoidance
• Slips to a landing
• Go-Arounds
• Landings both normal and crosswind

Ok, you flew by yourself... but not point to point... say you actually want to fly the aircraft Solo from Airport 'X' to Airport 'Y' prior to earning your private pilot's license???

SOLO CROSS COUNTRY REQUIRMENTS
Solo Cross Country Flight Training per 14CFR61.93(e)

• Use of aeronautical charts for VFR navigation including pilotage, dead reckoning, and with a compass
• Use of aircraft performance charts pertaining to cross country flight
• Procurement and analysis of aeronautical weather reports and forecasts, including recognition of critical weather situations and estimating flight visibility
• Emergency procedures
• Traffic Pattern Procedures – including area departure and area entry
• Procedures and operating practices for avoiding collision avoidance, wake
turbulence, and wind shear avoidance
• Recognition, avoidance, and operational restrictions of hazardous terrain features in the geographical area where the cross country is going to be flown
• Procedures for operating the instruments and equipment installed in the aircraft to
be flown, including recognition and the use of the proper operational procedures and indications
• Use of radios for VFR navigation and two way communications
• Takeoff, approach, and landing procedures, including short field, soft field, and crosswind takeoffs approaches and landings
• Climbs at best angle and best rate and
• Control and maneuvering solely by reference to flight instruments, including straight and level flight, turns, descents, climbs, use of radio aids, and ATC directives.


Reading this can be kinda daunting at first... (let alone learning the information and demonstrating the skills to do it safely) but it is very do-able for just about anyone. Which leads into....

and maybe also how much it would cost and time. Thanks.

Some would joke about 15% more that you have to spend... but seriously, plan on somewhere from $7000-$10,000. Usually, the harder you work, the less money you spend.

Time is up to you... as little as one month... as long as a lifetime. I would say the average is two to three months for the private pilot's license. That's about three flights a week, including 'ground school', in a location that has better than average flying weather.

Just trying to see the basic idea of how long and money it would cost me

Here's my very serious answer... the best thing for you to do is call around to the local flight schools. (Phonebook/Google... look at the AOPA website also) Ask them if they have a 1st flight lesson/Demo Flight program. I'm going to write this in all caps, because this is what I want you to focus on, DO THIS AT MULTIPLE SCHOOLS. Why? Because it is a very common pitfall for students to invest their flight training with the first person to take them up into the air and that is a mistake that could potentially cost you thousands of dollars. If you are going to learn to fly, you need to shop around for an instructor that fits your learning style and can help you reach your goals in aviation. (If I were still teaching - I would tell you this at your first lesson that I gave you - in fact I would encourage you to go find other instructors other than me and 'try them out') Anyhoo, I digress... but, seriously... remember. Check out multiple schools. Take multiple 1st Lesson/Demo Flights.

Back to your first flight... this is your opportunity to 'try before you buy' the piloting career. Will you get sick in the plane? Who knows? Will you even enjoy flying? Who knows? Go out there and take multiple 1st lessons and find out.

You then need to ask yourself if this is what you want to do as a career.

There is no glory.
There is no glamor.
There is only work.

You need to know deep within yourself that you are doing this because you love to fly and you love aviation because you will not stay in any one place for long, you will be away from your home and loved ones for a good portion of your life, and you will be fighting a constant uphill financial battle.

Now, I love my work. I really do. I can't see myself doing anything else. I am not in it for gobs of money - but I do expect to get paid fair compensation for what I do. I know that my career hurts my family life, I try to mitigate this as much as possible. (This makes me a pushover for a lot of things with my wife) As for moving all over the country, well, I commute... that has it's own challenges. You need to make a decision based on what you want out of life.

Examine your motivations, look at the good and the bad. (There is a wealth of great information on this website from very seasoned professionals who have had just about every pitfall happen to them in their careers, learn from them, and then make your own decisions)

I'm hoping to scare you a bit... but at the same time know that this is not rocket science. (if it was, we'd all be flying to the moon) Anyone with basic smarts, a willingness to study, and basic motor skills can learn to fly. To make it your profession requires all of that and a continual drive to succeed. If you think that you want to do this - you can. (Heck, I did... if I did, then anyone can)

Welcome to the community - be yourself - ask questions - and hopefully we can give you a leg up.
 
some quick pearls that may save you money

1. pick a small, slow airport. I did my training at a busy airport where the long traffic patterns and delays waiting for takeoff cost me thousands of dollars (hobbs timer is running whenever the engine is on). Sharing the pattern with 6 other planes sounds like valuable experience but isn't worth the expense.

2. Don't pay extra for a new, shiny airplane with fancy avionics. At least not for your basic ratings. fly the oldest cheapest airplane that is sufficiently maintained. It has also been my experience that some of the most beat up looking airframes have been the best planes, so you can't judge a plane by its paint job. This could save you a TON of money.

3. Pick an instructor that doesn't have a wet cfi ticket. Many cfi's view you as a time builder to get them to an airline quicker. They may not be the best cfi. be selective and make sure their teaching style and your learning style are in sync. this will save you thousands of dollars.

4. Read. A lot. and play lots of microsoft flight sim, esp during your instrument rating. Your scan and basic skills will develop for free at home saving you tons of $$$

5. Do your training at an airport with an ILS approach. Where I did my flight training, we had to fly 15 minutes with 5-10 min taxi time just to get to the airport with an ILS. Round trip you are talking $100 and change spent just to get to and from the airport with the ILS approach to practice!!!

6. If you can afford it, buy a cheap, well maintained airplane, in the middle of the country where they are cheaper, to build time in. You can share with a buddy to split the cost and build PIC time together. After you're done building time, sell the plane. Often times you can recover all of your money as long as you didn't fly too close to the engine overhaul times.

7. At your age, I would get all of your ratings mostly during the summers off from college, major in something like tax accounting. Something you could run a side business with while your earning power is still weak ie regional pilot. Also knowing that your flight skills and experience are worth about $10/hour behind a cash register outside aviation is not a comfortable feeling.
 
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